Datable Rebels - Weaponized Incompetence

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hi everyone. Uh, this is fair with the Dateable Rebels. Today we are talking about weapon weaponized and competence, and we have Samantha pre Stinson Gonzalez, a community organizer who fights for working class housing rights, a veteran, a social justice activist, and an elected official in Minneapolis. She was born and raised in East LA is a proud black Chicana. She has been married for 20 years and she shares three sons with her partner. Welcome, Sam. Speaker 1 00:00:39 Awesome. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Speaker 0 00:00:42 I'm excited too. And next up we have Miss Emily Colay. She is a professional singer, spiritual teacher and conductor, and a bomb ass single mother. Although she has been out of the dating scene for several years, she has enjoyed prolific experience throughout her life in both hetero and bi relationships and daily, Speaker 1 00:01:08 Yes. <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:01:12 I haven't heard that word. I don't think ever. Um, Speaker 1 00:01:16 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:01:17 You got stories we all got. Yeah. Okay. Now in 2023, she is ready to get back out there and explore the dating world again from a whole new perspective. Oof. She is a huge fan of the Dateable Rebels podcast and always honored to be a part of the show. Welcome, Emily. Speaker 1 00:01:36 Yes, thank you, Ms. Sarah. Happy to be here. Thank Speaker 0 00:01:39 You. And we have Mato. He identifies as original people. His mother was Lakota, his father was Ojibwe. He's just a man on a spiritual journey. He wanted to share his story. This also happens to men. He hasn't dated in five years. He took time to heal himself, and now he feels he's the best version of himself, and maybe love has passed him by. Speaker 1 00:02:10 Hmm. Speaker 0 00:02:12 Welcome. Mato Speaker 1 00:02:14 Woo Mato Speaker 2 00:02:18 With Speaker 1 00:02:21 What's that? Speaker 2 00:02:22 I feel honored to be a few. Speaker 1 00:02:27 He feels honored to be with us. Your audio got Speaker 0 00:02:29 Along. Oh, okay. Yeah, the audio's kinda shaky. Well, I'm honored to be with you all. Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, so we're talking about web weaponized incompetence. I can't say that. Um, and what it means Speaker 0 00:02:47 When I look it up and read about it, um, it means that, um, it's a behavioral pattern where one partner pretends to be bad at, at simple tasks to get out of shared tasks, um, and responsibilities. So like, it can look like not taking care of childcare or not giving the cat bath or not planning a party because you know, your partner is better at it, so you're gonna let them do the work. Also, what it can mean is not doing the emotional work in a relationship, uh, which really leads to a lot of resentment and feeling like you're being taken for granted, um, in a lot of ways. And so, like, I can totally relate to that one. Um, and so what have your experiences been with this weaponized and competence? Um, how about who wants to go first? Speaker 3 00:03:53 Girl, you just call Speaker 0 00:03:54 On us. Sam <laugh>. Speaker 3 00:03:59 I knew it. Speaker 0 00:04:03 You could feel it. Speaker 3 00:04:05 Um, you know, it's interesting because, um, like you, I had no idea about this phrase before, but it's something in talking with friends, the behaviors had come up many times being spoken about not knowing that it was actually a thing. Um, and so I found it interesting that one, we found out there was a name to it, how just being able to name an issue was felt powerful. Just just knowing what it is and that you're, you're not a crazy person. Um, this is something that is very real. Um, and honestly, I, where I first came into contact with this time of behavior actually was watching my mother go through it. Speaker 0 00:04:47 Okay. Speaker 3 00:04:48 Um, and not really knowing what it was, um, and seeing the devastating impacts that it has on, um, the other person. Um, and I'm quite sure that in the seventies and the eighties, th this had not been named at that point. Right. So it was really devastating for me to see the consequences of that type of her experiencing that weaponized incompetence, um, in her like general emotional capacity to be available, I think is a good way to put that. Um, her own self-confidence. Um, not having any patience, um, or very limited patience. Um, and just not ever being able to. And now, now that I'm also, uh, a mother, um, and grown, grown as I like to say, um, I also see that the, the biggest way that it affected her was that she was never able to do anything for herself. I can't think of, not one thing my mother ever did that was for herself and just for herself because all of her time was spent, um, dealing with having to do everything or redo things because they were done, but not done even remotely. Right. And I'll stop there and, and pass it to, um, to either one of the other guests. The, but I, I think that's a good, a good spot to pop us off. I think Speaker 1 00:06:18 I do too. And I wanna jump in because I appreciate so much, Samantha, that you brought up the generational aspect of this, which I hadn't even considered. And I think about when I was growing up, my mom was a single mom of three girls, and my dad just lived two blocks away. But she did everything. I mean, she did everything. And my mom was on a bus. We lived in a small town in southern Minnesota. She worked in Minneapolis. So she was on a bus by the time I even woke up in the morning and then didn't get back home until dinnertime. And it was just constantly grinding. I mean, she never got to stop. And now, as, as a single mother myself, we have this conversation all the time where she talks about how, you know, she just wished that my dad would've even just taken us more, or she was so grateful when we would go to the movies on Friday nights and she could just have like a couple of hours to watch Dallas <laugh> and drink a Coca-Cola or whatever. Speaker 1 00:07:17 Um, and I, and I hadn't thought about that before about how, you know, how that impacted me. Um, because I've always been like a hyper independent person. And I've always had, I've always felt like I've had to do everything on my own. I have to be completely self-sufficient, and I have a really large capacity to not only take care of myself and all of the things, but to also take care of a whole bunch of other people, not even just in my household or my family. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And this is like some of the work that I'm, I'm doing in therapy is trying to set some boundaries, um, because it's too much, it's too much energy output. And, and as my therapist says, I need more people who are pouring into me. Um, so I think that was a great starting off point. And, um, I appreciate you, you raising that perspective. Speaker 1 00:08:15 And I guess the only thing that I'll add in addition is I mean, in every relationship I've ever been in, whether it was intimate or not, any kind of roommate or partner living together situation, I have always been the person who has taken care of all the things in the home. And, um, and when I have expressed my, you know, it's like one of those things that gradually builds. It's like you start by just kind of asking people to help or telling them how you need them, how you need them to help. And then when it doesn't happen or it's done so incorrectly, <laugh>, and that resentment then just starts to build over time until it comes to a head. And then when you finally explode about it, at least in my situation, then I've been vilified, you know, all these high expectations. And, you know, I'm the, I'm the big meanie who has to, I'm the, I'm the, um, obsessive compulsive disorder person who has to have everything just so well, I don't think that that's it. I just need some goddamn help. <laugh>. That's right. I'll pass it to you. Mato, why don't you jump in? What do you have to say? Speaker 2 00:09:36 Oh, I'm glad that Samantha brought in the, uh, grandparents, because I didn't really even think of that until she spoke about it. And my, my ra, my, my, my raising up was very unique, but was definitely raised by a very strong auntie who owned a pawn shop and owned the police and owned the bar. And then my grandma was a typical, very, uh, stoic grandmother. And I watched as, I guess unhealed men came in and out of our lives. And I learned at a very young age, uh, by watching my aunt just to do it yourself, just to do it yourself. And I do that and, and, and I'm kind of like Emily, because I'm at the point now where I've moved outta South Minneapolis. I used to be a pretty standard person in South Minneapolis. Um, and I was always the protector, the healer, the go-to guy. Speaker 2 00:10:46 And at my age, I finally last year kind of pulled away from being that person because it was unending. People knew that they could call me at four in the morning and I would just come. I wouldn't ask questions, I wouldn't judge. I would just make shit right. And then leave again. And, um, for me, I've just learned over the years that just do it yourself. Do it your way. I was in a long-term relationship in which I considered, uh, I was happy. I was living on the poor side of a golf course in Woodbury, but my partner had, uh, surgery on her knee. And that went on for about two years. And I got scolded for not using the right cleaning supplies, uh, when I would have O C D and I would just deep clean the townhouse and I did it wrong, or I vacuumed the wrong way, or my vacuum hit a piece of and nicked it, or I didn't stack the dishes. Right. I mean, it was just a constant, constant, you're not doing things right. And I ended up just pulling away and not doing anything cuz I could not win. Mine was to a point where I would get yelled at as a growning man because the bathroom towel was facing out and the tag was facing out and the tags weren't supposed to face out. They were supposed to face inside, not to be seen and know Speaker 1 00:12:27 That, John, come on. Isn't that like common knowledge? Speaker 2 00:12:32 Listen, maybe when company comes over, I'll put the tags in. But to finish the story I got yelled at cuz I took the tags off the towel. Oh, it, it, it, it got to be to the point where I didn't want to do anything cuz I, I, and I, and I think to myself, I know people that would be love for me to come into their house and fucking deep clean their house. You know? You sure would. And, and I'm doing that this weekend. My, my, uh, roommate is gone to Lake Vermillion with a bunch of people fishing and I stayed home. And when I stay home, I'm looking at the house and I'm like, yep, I'm gonna deep clean the house my way. And guess what? My roommate love it because two men living together, it gets messy when we're sportsmans. You know, but I'm like looking at, I'm looking at things that I'm gonna straighten and things that I'm gonna, you know, get all squared away because there's no one here to bitch to me about it. I can do it my way on my time. Speaker 0 00:13:34 I have a question. Do you think that you were dealing with somebody who had O C D? Because it sounds like it. Speaker 2 00:13:42 I really do. Um, it, it was, okay, here's here's the deal. I became so insignificant in the relationship that I left mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And when I left, I went back night and I told her, I said, you know how I have left this household and you don't even know that I left. I couldn't have anything in the hospital, anything questions blows my buttal. I didn't have any sense of home. So yes, it, it was very difficult and it was very difficult to go back and make amends cuz I didn't think I had done anything wrong. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I had just been beat, I had just been beaten down so bad that I just ended up not doing anything because I was gonna get reprimanded for it. So that's my 2 cents that. But I really do believe it was a learned behavior from my aunt and my grandma as far as just do everything yourself. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I learned that at a very young age, doing man work when I was a very young age because I was with my grandma and my aunt. I was the protector. Um, I don't think I really even grew up as a child. I was just, I was an adult. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 0 00:15:26 Yeah. I mean, it's, it's hard when you want something done and it's, you know, done a different way or whatever. Yeah. So I think, you know, especially if we've grown up with parents that we're not available, you know, it's like, fuck it, I'm just gonna do it. I'm gonna do it myself. I definitely can relate to you, John, about not really being a child and just growing up and, you know, I have to do this. It's what I have to do, you know, and for me it was like emotionally taking care of Speaker 2 00:16:04 People. Right? Speaker 0 00:16:06 Yeah. So Speaker 2 00:16:09 I think to, oh, go ahead John. Oh, I was gonna say for me, like when I talk about growing up being a man, I remember being nine years old in Washington, DC at the bia a office with the American Indian Movement and being around those elders, I just grew up, you know, I don't re really remember like riding a bicycle around the block or anything. And I didn't really come to society until I was in the seventh grade. The seventh grade I had a tattoo. I had pierced earrings. I smoked cigarettes in the seventh grade. Speaker 0 00:16:50 Oh my God. Speaker 2 00:16:52 I I bootlegged liquor for my aunt. I mean, yeah. I mean, and I got to seventh grade and I was like, you don't do these things. Like, I was in a very religious northern Minnesota town where I was definitely the heathen in the town. <laugh>, Speaker 0 00:17:14 That's why lake the common heathens, Speaker 2 00:17:17 <laugh>, you have, I use that word even in the last, oh, 10 years, I was flipping a house in St. Paul and long story, but both of my neighbors were very far-right religious people. But they let this old man that lived in between him just to live by himself and the mother had died in the house. And one day I was pulling up to the house and I saw the rocking chair in the attic moving back and forth. So I thought I should smudge the house. So I was singing sacred songs, smudging the house. And the one neighbor came out and referred to me as a heathen to a six year old son. What he didn't know is that his six year old son used to sneak over to my house cause I had cool shit in the house, you know, but I was referred to as a, he, Speaker 3 00:18:11 I could relate Speaker 2 00:18:13 <laugh>, Sam, Speaker 3 00:18:15 I was gonna say that there's what we've talked about so far that we focused on tasks, but the, there it's so much deeper, these behaviors, how they can end up driving us as we move through our stages of life and how when we interact with people, um, and, you know, no, no relationship is the same. Even what we've described so far, similarities, but also very different. And so you brought up a good point, FARA, that there can be other factors, right? You could be dealing with somebody who's a narcissist. You could be dealing with somebody that has ooc d those factors could be there, but there, there could also be another factor, um, which is the one I think I have more, um, experience with seeing or being in relationship to, which is, um, a lack of communication. Um, and, you know, we're all responsible for our own stuff. Speaker 3 00:19:15 So I, I'm not saying that you can create the monster, uh, but we, we can absolutely be active participants in creating an environment where weaponized incompetence can happen. I think it could face shift, I think that it can be moved out of, but I think, uh, uh, there's a lot of aspects of it that have to do with a lack of communication. And, um, I think Emily, you brought it up before, like you could, or it might have been you fair, like you could just flat out explode right? And have like 10 years worth of receipts as I like to call 'em. And like nickel and dime every little thing that you've never done. Um, which may be true. But then we also have to be self-accountable if we're unable and at least identifying why it is we feel that we cannot speak up and why we allow for the behavior to continue. Speaker 3 00:20:08 Um, and I think that's, you know, it's, I think it depends on, um, your relationship. And it doesn't just have to be romantic ones. Um, John was just mentioning community, and I would definitely say that I, I felt that way, um, just being a community member, being an activist, I just like to say a community member. But, um, realizing that in myself, right? Like I, it's my responsibility to make sure that my cup is filled. Um, and if everybody's just coming and, you know, taking out the water cooler, um, I really can't be angry at them because I'm allowing for it to happen. And perhaps maybe I even feel like it could be that I don't feel like my cup is worth being filled. Um, and maybe I find I'm finding my value by being needed, um, but not necessarily being wanted. And I think there's, there's just a such a huge distinction between people needing you and people wanting you to be around outside of when they need something. Speaker 3 00:21:09 Um, so I just think there's, there's just so many incredibly complicated factors, um, that I don't think that, I think that when these behaviors present themselves, um, there's usually a history. There's usually something unique. Um, and there's also, you know, like I, I'm a, I'm a pretty straightforward person, generally speaking for myself, but I also do know that I, I like things done a particular way and, uh, I can be, I could be a contributor to behaviors, even though I might not be the main driver of them. Um, by just, you know, John had mentioned, you know, the tags. I, I'm not all like that with it, but like the tags is a great idea. I've heard people say that before as like, you know, an annoyance. Me, I would turn it around just because it would bother me. But again, if somebody else does it, I'm just glad that the clean towels are there. Speaker 3 00:22:07 Right? I'm just glad that the dishes are in the cabinet regardless of whether he puts the cups on the left and I put 'em on the right. And so I, I think it's, it really, a lot of it boils down to communication and entering into relationships without expectations being set before we do. Because we, like, we love the warm fuzzies, right? Like, we love the feeling of love. But even in the moment of being in love, I, I don't think I've ever done it. How many times have we actually said, well, what are the expectations of this relationship? What are we actually looking for? What do I actually need? And we often don't do that until our needs aren't being met when in reality we never said what the hell our needs were in the first place. So sometimes it might not even be a case of weaponized in confidence. It could be a case of two people, whether, uh, romantic or not entering into an agreement, really a relationship. In many ways, there's like an agreement, um, without understanding the, the details, right? So it's a cool topic because there's just so, there's so many details to it, but in my 20 year relationship, I find it's communication has just been the thing. And sometimes I think it's one thing, and it's really not, it's just a lack of communication or it's not clear, or it's just not happening at all. Speaker 0 00:23:29 Yeah, I agree. It's super layered. It's very layered topic, and oh my God, there's just so much that goes into it. Speaker 3 00:23:40 <laugh> fireworks going up in my brain, I'm, I'm like thinking of all the things. But yeah, communication, like I said, has really just been, and that's, you know, it's not unique to me, but I think especially if you've been in a long-term relationship, um, they change, we change the shit we go through, whether it's individually or together, it changes us. It reshapes us. Um, sometimes it feels like it rewrites your d n a even on some sort of a level. Um, and you can, you know, not be a different person, but in many ways yes. And like how you might not even be equipped to be able to talk about it. Right? And so, I mean, I think that's another thing to kind of talk about is how do we, how we shut down. Like in John's case, he shut down as a result of somebody else's behaviors, right? And then I don't think that he was weaponizing any sort of incompetence, he just shut down. But somebody could easily look at that and say, oh, that was weaponized incompetence. He just purposely wasn't doing it the way that the other person wanted. So I, I think it could be very subjective, who is the person that's wielding the weapon? Speaker 0 00:24:51 Right? And I don't think very many people will actually do this on purpose. I couldn't imagine. I would think it'd be like, yeah, I'm trying, I think I'm trying, you know what I mean? Like, I'm doing my best, but I just don't know how to do this thing. I don't know how to move past this block or whatever for whatever reason. Speaker 3 00:25:10 Yeah. I find it hard to believe somebody would do it on purpose, but that just might be my optimism that I try to hold about the world again, unless you're dealing with like a narcissist. Yeah. Um, I, I really do. I I, I'd like to hear what other folks think, but it, I really have a hard time feeling like somebody would be doing it on purpose. Speaker 0 00:25:29 Yeah, me too. Speaker 1 00:25:31 Well, I've got something to say about, about this. Um, Speaker 0 00:25:35 <laugh> do it, do it Speaker 1 00:25:36 Here, Emily. So I'm a tag person. I'm very much a tag person. I'm very much, uh, all the labels in my pantry face outwards. There is a way to do everything in my house. And this has been a function for me, a survival function. And we can call it O c I have no problem with that. Um, because I have so much going on all the time because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm managing so much stuff. My physical space has to be in order, in order for being function. If things are messy, chaotic, it, it's like I can't, then I can't. It's, it's, it sticks in me and I can't get to all the other things that I need to get to. So I'm thinking about my mom who comes and babysits my son, you know, one a night a week and sometimes more. And this woman knows me for 47 years, and she, you know, has been babysitting in my home for the past almost 10 years. Speaker 1 00:26:38 So, like, here's an example. Now I'm not gonna get pernicity with, with people that are coming over to my house. You know what I mean? If guests use the hand towel, of course, you know, they're my guests. I'm never gonna be like that with, with people, you know, in that capacity. But for example, my silverware have a really thin, narrow stem, like handle. And if you put them in the dishwasher in the little basket with the stem down, they're gonna fall through the basket. And years and years and years, I've been telling my mom, you've gotta put 'em in the other way. And it's not the way that she does it at her house, but it's been 10 years this woman's been coming up to my house to babysit the child. So on one hand it's like, okay, but she's so nice to be coming up every week to babysit the child. Speaker 1 00:27:28 Like, you can't get mad at her about, about the dishwasher. At the same time. It's like, but I've been telling her for 10 years. Like, why can't she just put the fucking thing in the right way so that I don't have to go back and redo it? Which feels like extra labor on my part. Okay. So if my mom is watching this, she is right now wanting to chime in <laugh> to talk about how anal I am about everything. So that's the first thing that I wanna say is that I feel like with my intimates, with the people that are in that, you know, I do have those expectations of, I feel like I do communicate them very clearly, but as my mom will say, I just don't care. Like to her, it's just not that big of a deal. It's not that important. So some of those kinds of things really just aren't as important to other people. Speaker 1 00:28:17 But for somebody like me, with whatever mental psychosis I have that needs everything to be a certain way so that I can function in my life, um, that's hard. That's really hard for me. And I'm gonna like kind of segue this into talking about then raising my child, because I feel like so many, I'm gonna say specifically the men that I've been in intimate relationships with, that I've lived with, I feel like so many of them were like mama's boys whose mamas did everything for them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then that's what I had to deal with in those relationships. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I'm looking at now being a parent, a mother of a, of a boy, and on one hand, oh my God, it's so much easier just to do it myself. It is so much easier not to have to go through the struggle and the fight and him procrastinating and bargaining and all that stuff. Speaker 1 00:29:17 It'd be so much easier just to do the thing myself. But especially now that he's kind of at an age where he's able to reason and understand these things, it's like I really do put my foot down with him and insist that he has to contribute to the household in an age appropriate way. And I really hold him to it. And I, and I specifically tell him, it's sometimes what I say to him is, you're someday gonna be in a relationship with somebody and that person is gonna thank me for this <laugh>, because I want him to learn how to, I want him to understand the concept of when we are all sharing space together. These are shared responsibilities, and you have your part. It's not that I'm asking you to do things that you're not capable of doing that are beyond your ability level. It's like you have the ways that you need to contribute to this home. Speaker 1 00:30:14 And then I have the ways that I contribute and, you know, and it's proportionate, you know, like, of course I do most of it. He does very little of it. But I feel like those are the two things that are coming to mind right now is that I do think that there are people who just don't care. It's just not as important to them. And so, you know, is it fair to have that expectation of others? Maybe not. And maybe that's why I've chosen to, to not live with other adults anymore, that I would just rather do it if I'm gonna end up doing it all myself anyway. I'd rather only have my stuff to have to deal with than another adults as well. Um, but then there's that other piece too, about this learned behavior. You know, that especially as moms, like if we're doing the things for the kids all the time, because it's just easier, then they grow up and this is the expectation that they have of others. Speaker 0 00:31:12 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And how do you in relationship come to a compromise if one person doesn't really care about that thing and the other person's like, I fucking care about this. Like, I need you in order for me to function in a certain way. I need you to do this thing. And then like, but it's not a big deal. So like, how do you come together? Because I experienced that, like with, um, with emotional stuff in a relationship. Um, yeah. Like how do you, how do you bridge that, that cow? Speaker 1 00:31:46 Yeah. I don't know. Speaker 0 00:31:49 Yeah, I don't either. Speaker 1 00:31:52 Especially if you're communicating like Samantha's, you know, saying like the communication thing. She's in a 20 year relationship, you know, obviously she's doing something, it's working mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, you know, the communication piece is huge. But like, I feel that I had consistently communicated and even like vulnerably, like admitting, like I, I'm, I'm working on this on myself, you know, like not feeling that internal pressure that I can let things go, but it's, it's a really hard thing that I'm dealing with. And, you know, if you could be sympathetic to that, and even just on these things, just help me with these things, you know, that would be so much. But if they just don't care, they just, Speaker 0 00:32:33 Yeah, Speaker 1 00:32:36 Yeah, yeah. If they don't care Speaker 0 00:32:39 <affirmative>, then that's where the boundaries come in. And if you know the boundaries, someone's overstepping, you know, like continuously overstepping boundaries, then that's where you have to kinda question like, what, what do I need to do about this? You know? Speaker 3 00:32:53 Yeah. It doesn't work. I think too, like you can't force like a circle into a square, right? So I think, I think sometimes too, so weaponizing and competence definitely real. And I think sometimes, sometimes we look for labels because it's easier, like to just name a thing and be like, oh, that's what it is. Um, and it may not be. I think sometimes it's trying to force something that, that isn't meant to be. Yeah. And then I think like Emily made a point too, like they just might not care or, you know, in the range of things that matters to them, those types of tasks. But it could be bigger than that. Um, see, I lost my train of thought. I call it, I went into the kitchen, I forgot what I went in there. Bef went in there first. Yes. I remember what I meant. Speaker 3 00:33:42 What I meant to go on the tangent before about the task bigger than just the task. It's like planning everything, like every vacation, every doctor appointment, um, so much deeper than just, um, you know, some of the things we already talked about. But some of those more, those more deeper things that can make you, can make you feel like you're loo you don't, the other person doesn't value. Um, and, and it could very much so feel that way, right? Like, if you're planning your own birthday, if you are, um, I mean, just, just all the things, it could just be something very simple. The the mail, getting the mail, um, doing the grocery shopping. If so, it's not just the task, but it's also, you know, those much deeper things than that. And it can really, those types of behaviors can really start to make you feel like you don't have value. Speaker 3 00:34:38 Um, and in a strange way, like Emily, you're very detailed and you're clear about why you need those things that way. But what can happen is those behaviors can actually make you exacerbate those behaviors for yourself. Because it does kind of come, come, like, for me, it can become about control. I don't have control of any of these other factors, but the very few things I can control, which is which way my tags are facing, or like, you know, any other small thing like that, those are the things in my environment that I absolutely can control. And so it, it matter, it, it starts mattering to me all the much more, um, because of those other behaviors. Um, and so back to communication, again, it, it could lead to a real meltdown. And I think the only way to really figure out whether you're dealing with, um, you know, a, a temporary blip on the map, right? Speaker 3 00:35:38 Cause of more than likely miscommunication, lack of communication altogether. Or are you dealing with somebody that chronically does this because they just don't give a shit? And then I think that's where our self ownership comes in, because a lot of, like, once you figure that question out, I don't think any of us have any shortage with ourselves or other people in relationship with, where then the choice is made to continue anyways and keep trying to shove that rectangle into that circular port. And it's never gonna go down. It's never gonna go down. And so then it's a bigger question of probably trauma, right? That has come up earlier too, of watching my mother. Different things. It can be a trauma that's associated with why we allow ourselves to continue on. Once we've identified that this isn't just some one-off or some lack of communication. This is something much more chronic and deeper. Why are we choosing to continue with? Speaker 1 00:36:35 Yep, a hundred percent. Here's this amazing TikTok video. I just found it, and if you want me to pull it up on my computer and like screen share it, but it's, it's, it's around this whole topic, it and, and this, it's a cha it's a young person who's talking about it kin keeping. And it's exactly what you were just, um, talking about Sam, about, um, about how it also evolves from, you know, like the people who plan everything, who take care of all of those small details. And I think that this is really brilliant. Do you wanna see it real quick? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So you're the host now. Okay, so here we go. I'm gonna share. Okay, here we Speaker 4 00:37:23 Go. If there is one thing that I learned from my women in gender studies class that is on my mind 24 7, it's keeping, keeping is the root of stress in most women's lives. And because they don't know the name for it, they're often called irrational. Um, so I'm gonna give you a little analogy before I explain what it is. Imagine there's a theater and they want to put on a play. They're gonna hire not only actors and actresses, but they're gonna hire costume designers, people to move the furniture in between scenes, people to move the curtains, people to, um, sell the tickets, to advertise for the show, to, um, show the lights and do the spotlights correctly. People to have the microphones, um, ushers to have everyone sit in the right spots. There's a lot of effort and time and energy that goes into a play. Speaker 4 00:38:14 But at the end of the day, when the play is done, people are not clapping for everything that they did not see. They're clapping for the actors and actresses that they witnessed in this analogy. The men are the actors and actresses, and the women are the people who go unseen during the holidays. There's a lot of cooking and cleaning and planning and organizing and wrapping of paper and remembering of days. And, but a lot of it goes unnoticed because the whole role of this job is to be invisible and to perform convenience for everyone to put on a show. You may notice during the holidays, there's a lot of women in your kitchen bonding, talking, but they're also doing work. And it's not only your mom, it's your aunts, your grandma, it's everyone. And they just subconsciously know that that's, they, your mom needs help and they create a bonding experience out of it. Speaker 4 00:39:10 And that's fine. But if you look at the men, they're sitting at the table talking and laughing and telling stories, relaxing with their feet up, not knowing what time anything starts. You might notice on a road trip, your mom's wondering, did everything get packed? Where is everybody? Has everyone eaten? What time are we getting there? When are we, when are we supposed to get there? Um, what was I supposed to bring? And you might notice your dad saying, calm down. Why are you being so irrational? Everything's gonna be fine. Stop worrying so much. And it pains me to see this because this man doesn't see all the work that your mother has done because it doesn't have a name. He doesn't know the name, he doesn't know any of the work she's done. It's the unpaid labor that women are assigned to subconsciously as a gender. And not only does this cause a lot of stress in women's lives, but it also breeds a lot of ignorance in men. Did your dad plan that vacation? Did he even get the presence underneath the tree that say from dad on them? Does he know when your dentist appointment is? Does he know what size pants you wear? If not, who did that and who took credit? Lemme know if you wanna part two. Speaker 1 00:40:26 Oh my God, yes. It felt wrong. Speaker 4 00:40:29 <laugh>. Speaker 3 00:40:30 Yeah. Speaker 1 00:40:32 Wow. I always get a little like, uh, I kinda cringe a little bit when we get, you know, too, um, you know, like, this is a, this is what happens to women. You know what I mean? And I mean, I I agree largely, yeah. Just that, the way that it's, but I mean, I just, I just like to say that, you know, that of course, um, there are men, there's the opposite that's experienced as well. Speaker 3 00:40:54 Yeah. Especially in other cultures. I'm glad that you said that because yes, in lots of other cultures, the stereotypical binary roles are reversed or shared in a different way. So, um, it's not a matter of the binary conversation, it's just whoever is is doing it. Um, you know, the opposite. So I'm glad that you called that out, Emily. Speaker 1 00:41:16 Yeah. But at the same time, I, that this is the thing, right? This is what we're talking about is like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, all the little details, all the minutiae of stuff that, that, that some people, depending on what the context is, don't even realize it's happening. It's not even on their radar. And then when the person who's doing all of that labor gets frustrated or short or whatever it is, it's like, oh my God. Like, what's, what's your problem? Like, why are you snapping at me? Why are you, and it's like, well, because I've just done all this fucking shit. <laugh>, Speaker 0 00:41:50 You don't even notice anything Speaker 1 00:41:53 <laugh>. Yeah. Yep. Speaker 0 00:41:57 Yeah. I don't know. In my experience, it's been a gender thing that I've seen throughout my life, you know, like, so that's all I can, I can speak to, but everybody has different experiences, but yeah, like going to, to Christmas dinner or whatever at the grandma's house, like all the women are in the kitchen and the men are downstairs watching football. It's like Speaker 2 00:42:15 <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Speaker 1 00:42:16 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:42:18 Just kinda clueless. And you know, like that's just how it's, that's how it's been. Um, and I think it's definitely deeply in our culture, you know, like definitely in like in the American culture, um, for women to take on like the emotional roles and relationships for sure. To do a lot of that work. And it's hard. It's definitely hard, Speaker 1 00:42:42 You know, I'll admit, I'm sorry, macho. I'm just gonna say one thing to what Fair said, and then I'll, and then I'll let you chime in. But I just wanted to say that, you know, for me, I don't even mind doing it because I like doing that stuff. I love cooking, I love cleaning, I love hostessing decorating. Like, that's my jam. That was my job, that I could just be in my house and like, be doing that stuff and welcoming people over to come and, and eat and everything. That would be awesome. Um, but sometimes I get irritated when there're there isn't any acknowledgement or appreciation and express, you know, sometimes even just being able to acknowledge that somebody's doing all of that, and then, you know, just expressing like, appreciation is important. Let's, let's hear what she has say. Speaker 2 00:43:30 Communication. For me, I think it's a cultural thing. Being Native American, we had roles and as a child it was to be seen, not to be heard. So I learned to be quiet for a very long time and just listen. And I could have a woman relationship basically tell me that. My issue was, I didn't communicate, but at the time I was doing real, real, deep work, self involved, a lot of dark, violent things, and I just didn't think that anybody could understand what I was dealing with. And I didn't wanna, their world, I bring in <affirmative> events, but communicating, I, I can say that I've never started a relationship by sitting down and saying, what are your expectations of me in this relationship? I've never said those words to a woman. I just kind of went in and started my role and role as on the protector provider, heal. Speaker 2 00:44:52 But I never really communicated to a partner what I need to soothe my soul and my mind. I just did that on my own by once again, shutting down. So over the last five years, I've been healing myself. And it would be strange. I, I it would be delightful, but it'd be strange to sit down with a partner and just kind of etch things out as far as expectations are in what it is that you like. Um, I'm doing housework. I don't think that, um, I like haven't, I'll share with you a story. I went to, uh, my partner's grandparents who lived in southern Minnesota, and they're og farm people. Three generations, four generations. But once again, was the cooking. But I was taught at a young age, if the women are in the kitchen cooking, then you as a man, when it's all said and done, need to go do the dishes and clean up the kitchen, which I'm all good to do. Speaker 2 00:46:11 So I got it from the table, and all the men went in and were drinking scotch and drinking or smoking cigars. And I was in the kitchen with rubber gloves on doing the dishes. And the grandpa literally stopped and stood up and told me to get over there, get a cigar and get a scotch. And I was like, no, my job is, you know, to clean up after the women after they've cooked all this food. And he was, for me, he thought it was the worst ever. But I think the takeaways for me is like the communication, um, of not being a young man. Even there were always older people around, so I just observed and didn't speak. And for those, I think ly, Speaker 0 00:47:23 The sound, the sound is really messed up. I can hardly understand what you're saying. You too, Emily. I can see your face. You're like, Speaker 1 00:47:30 Yeah, it, it, it like will be, it'll, it'll level out. But then all of a sudden's really gar and it, and it just, it just got worse in that little moment. It was kind of briefer earlier though. I think that you were just talking about, you were just talking about how, you know, comes from when you were younger and you were the expectation that you were supposed to be seen. Not, I think that's what I heard you say last. Speaker 0 00:47:55 And that he did the dishes. Speaker 1 00:47:56 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:47:57 When all the men were sitting around drinking scotch Speaker 1 00:48:00 And the grandpa was irate. Speaker 0 00:48:02 Yeah. Which I think it's great to be a man and be like, no, this is what we need to help the woman out. Like Yeah. That's great. Speaker 1 00:48:09 Good work, Mato. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:48:13 Well, for me, I, I, I observe and I listen to women and I watching get raised, but it was like, Speaker 1 00:48:24 Okay, you cut out. It's, Speaker 0 00:48:27 Uh, can we, can you try to bring it like to a different, uh, location of your house and see if that Speaker 1 00:48:32 Helps? I think it's the internet. Speaker 3 00:48:34 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:48:35 Yeah. Sometimes if I sit at a different spot in my apartment, like it'll be better, but Yeah, Speaker 1 00:48:43 It's Speaker 3 00:48:44 Hard by a window. Speaker 0 00:48:45 Yeah. Yeah. Window's good. I'm by all my windows right now Speaker 1 00:48:54 And I think this is an important point also, you know, so I'm happy that you're bringing it up, you know, just like even in terms of communication when we're coming from different cultural, all different kinds of backgrounds and just that piece, like learning how to communicate <laugh>, Speaker 0 00:49:10 It's everything. Speaker 1 00:49:11 Yeah. Speaker 3 00:49:13 Yeah. Cause it does, I think one of the things too is that it does need to be talked about. Like, it's not just like some dirty little secret. Cause I think another thing that, that I will say that um, is something that I had to put a lot of work into once I called myself out about it was we spend a lot of time talking to the people that we know and trust about what is going on in our relationships, right? They have no idea about all the minutia and the details and you know, all the things that you might leave out. Um, and that's not to say that we don't need, um, support, but I think there's, um, there's definitely a, a hard line that can get crossed from where you're having discussions with friends because they're part of your support system. And when you start to kinda rely on them to get it out, meanwhile the person that needs that you need to be having the conversation with, it never happens. Speaker 3 00:50:11 Um, and oftentimes, um, because that's just what we do as friends, sometimes we do have those friends that will, well, what were you doing when this happened? Or that, but the reality is, is that usually these types of conversations are over a glass of wine. We stick up for our friend, the person, you know, that is our named friend in the relationship. And sometimes as friends we might not be very helpful because I'll speak for myself, I'll come home on level my right, I came home or whatever and I'm, I kinda feel like I'm on the ramp. They might not even be doing anything. They're probably not. And I'm mad about something. I shoulda talked to him about three weeks ago. But now since I talked about it with my, with my friends, they, you know, put in my tank as I like to call it. Speaker 3 00:51:01 Um, now I have become part of problem. And so I think like, you know, directing communication, where it goes, doing it often, you know, the practice of practicing, nothing becomes a practice if you don't practice it. So the practice of practicing, communicating and navigating conflict, um, cuz it's totally navigation. Um, and also exploring that there, there's pr more than likely there's probably some co-dependency going on. And I say that from someone that's been in, we've been married 20 years, but we've been together for almost 25. So, um, there can be co-dependencies that happen. Um, you know, it's very, very few times can I think of a time where whatever the issue wasn't going on, even though one of us might have been the one exhibiting the behavior to begin with, if it goes on longer term, uh, we both end up becoming part of the problem, whether we were the initial instigator of it or not. Speaker 3 00:52:08 Um, and so, you know, I just keep kind of coming back to that communication thing. But I do think that the longer you're in a relationship, the more likely it is for some sort of codependency, weaponized incompetence imbalance, um, that doesn't shift is likely. And, um, the first time it happens, like it could really break a relationship because it's a first, you know, you, we think of all the cool stuff, the first kiss, the first dance, the first, but we don't talk about the first time the plate gets thrown across the room and it breaks. Or the first time we slam the door and go sleep on the girlfriend's couch or whatever for the night. Um, and so we don't plan for those first. We, we, we plan for the beauty in our relationship, but we don't plan for, um, the the tough times, the rough times. Speaker 3 00:52:59 And that doesn't mean that we have to put up or tolerate or accept something that in our spirit we can't. But it does mean that, um, these relationships are not easy. Our parents got lucky, they got to get rid of us when we were an adult. Um, but our partners inherit us and they're the ones that, that get stuck with us for the rest of our lives if that's what we choose. Um, and that takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of work and it always comes back down to, for me, like, is it worth it? Um, because love isn't enough. Um, it's not, it, it's so much more than love. Can you love me at my worst? Just like, you can love me when I'm at my best. And my answer to that is that yes, he can and well, and so I'm always willing to remain present, um, and do that work. Speaker 3 00:53:46 And I think that's, I, for me, that's kind of, I don't have a whole lot more to say. I wanna hear from the rest of you on that point, but I think that's, that's where it lands for me is just, um, are you willing to put in that work to correct the behavior? It can be corrected for, it does need to be called out. It has to be called out very intentionally. And you have to come up with a plan on like how are you gonna support each other through what you both need on how this happened. Um, and that that's really the only way you're either gonna work through it or you're gonna work your way out of it. And there's, there isn't really an an in between, um, in something like this, uh, because it could easily lead to a very destructive environment where other behaviors start to present themselves that, um, could even be quite dangerous to be honest in the long term. I'm curious what other, um, folks think, Speaker 1 00:54:39 Uh, I wanna say, I think that I fair you could do a whole show on this piece that she just brought up about how we go and communicate about the things with other people rather than the person that we're supposed to be communicating with. And you know, you were saying that you, you call like, you know, your friends, they pour, they pour fuel on the fire or put gas in the tank. I look at it as, I call it planting poison seeds. Speaker 3 00:55:05 Yeah. Speaker 1 00:55:06 Because when you're going and you're talking about not, you're not talking to the person, but you're talking about the person as a means of venting, which is fair. Like, you know, sometimes that needs to happen. And when we got really good friends who have also demonstrated, like those relationships have been put to the test and we've been able to support each other through the worst of times and the best of times, those are the kinds of people that I feel comfortable having those venting to because they'll also put me in check, yes, they've all seen the worst of me and they know how crazy I can get about things or my idiosyncrasies or whatever. And they can be like, girl, I'm feeling you and at the same time, <laugh>, let's get real about this thing. You know? Mm-hmm. Speaker 3 00:55:48 <affirmative> Speaker 1 00:55:48 This, those friends that like yeah girl and they're just pu putting, putting the gas in the tank or throwing the fuel on the fire and then those poison seeds, you know? So then you come home and your poison seed is already sprouting and your, now your story about this person has just been like, solidified in your mind cuz you got people to agree with you. So now you're coming with all this extra attitude to have the conversation if you're even gonna have the conversation. Yeah. Um, and it also then plants the poison seeds about that person with the people that you just talked about now. Exactly. They don't know all of like the good little things, the minutia or even how you went home and maybe you talked through it and how you came to a resolution in a good way or whatever. They're missing that part of it. And so now they just have a little bit of a opinion about the person you were talking about, um, that they wouldn't have had prior Speaker 3 00:56:46 Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 00:56:47 <affirmative>. So I think that could be a whole episode, Farrah. Speaker 0 00:56:51 Oh yeah. And I did this, um, workshop with Maria Speaker 1 00:56:56 Mm-hmm. Speaker 3 00:56:57 <affirmative> can't remember Speaker 1 00:56:58 OhSo. Speaker 0 00:56:59 Yeah. Maria Toso. Yeah. About, um, you know, relationships and when we get triggered and um, how to do, you know, some, some practices where you can ground into your body and really like find whatever is triggering you and go into that thing instead of the, you know, the, the, the trigger that is present. Um, if you had, if we had friends that did that for us, you know, instead of, cause you know, I talk to my friends too, we all talk to our friends and, um, yeah. And, and hopefully we have those really good friends that, you know, at this point in our lives, like we have these solid friendships where be like, hey, whatever, whatever. And they can be like, okay, so try this exercise or, you know what I mean? Like, um, anyway, I feel blessed to have those friends that will definitely check me and, and say, okay, let's, let's look at this whatever D B T or meditation or whatever and try that and see how you feel. Speaker 3 00:58:11 Mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:58:11 <affirmative> and then, but yeah, there could be a whole episode on that and it can be toxic and also we need to vent. So it's like Speaker 1 00:58:22 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Speaker 3 00:58:24 Venting. It's not the venting, it's who you're venting too. The problem. A problem. Cause we do also, like, I, I'll be, I'm keeping it real. I don't got no reason not to, you know, not to tell the truth here, there in the past there have been, I have been selective about who I've chosen to vent to, right? Like, if I just want a true vent and somebody that that's gonna kind hype me up subconsciously, I know that's what I want and I will go to those people. Right? Um, and, and you have to be careful about who you allow into your, into your home. Even if it's only in your words. Because we call a lot of people our friends, um, in life just generally, but they're not. Um, and sometimes people like to be around us when we're not at our best Speaker 0 00:59:12 Mm-hmm. Speaker 3 00:59:13 <affirmative>. Um, and so that opening those doors to letting people into something that is very sacred, to be honest, um, can lead to even more issues. Um, and, and we, I've read stories of crazy stuff that happened that the person you go venting to all the time somehow on left, left off with, with your man, with a woman or your person. Right? So that could be a whole nother show too. But, um, I, I think there, there's just, there's a, whatever a behavior is, and in this case it's weaponized incompetence can lead to those behaviors becoming more permanent because they're being practiced regularly, right? So the practice of practicing and then as they're result, the other partner then establishes new behaviors because it's, they're acting to what they're experiencing, they're not being responsive to it become reactionary. Um, and we know what comes with being reactionary, what we feel in our mind and our body. Speaker 3 01:00:15 Um, and so it's, it becomes a big ball of wax rolling downhill of, of poor behaviors that lead to more poor behaviors. So mm-hmm. <affirmative> it in the, in the beginning of naming it, it's, it's a thing. This is what it looks like, this is what it does. And I think I'm seeing it and have that real conversation from the beginning so that it doesn't turn into something that's just so complex that you, that you don't even know what it is or how it started and, and when it began and, and, and can't even tell what it led you to. Speaker 0 01:00:50 Yeah, I agree. It's so important. But we have to, we have to, uh, like really determine like who gets to, who gets to be part of that and who wouldn't. It wouldn't be a good idea to share with Oh yeah. Yeah. I It's a really, Speaker 3 01:01:19 No, go ahead. Speaker 0 01:01:21 Oh, I just think it's a really good, that's a really good subject, Sam. Like, it's really good. It's, it's, and there's, so, it's so, there's so much depth to it. There's so many layers Speaker 3 01:01:31 To this. How many minutes do we have left? Cause I don't wanna start no new stuff and we can't talk about, Speaker 0 01:01:36 I mean, we could go on for, you know, like I don't know, maybe 20 more minutes, 10 more minutes, whatever people have time or energy for like, I'm ready to be done in like 20 minutes. That's where my energy, Speaker 3 01:01:48 Yeah. I, I'm about there, there was just one other thing that I was talking about, hearing all of us about our different experiences, and that is, which is, um, ma you brought it up about healing a couple of times, and the fact is, is that we're all trying to deprogram in so many ways from, um, either being so many different things. It could be that you were forced outta your, um, your cultural practices or ways of doing things and forced to assimilate to, um, you know, a more view of how the world should work. Um, it could be gender roles. It, I mean, there's so much that goes into it, but I think that there's a lot of healing from necessary deprogramming and realizing how much of the things that we expect of ourselves, um, doesn't come from a place of what we actually want from ourselves, but from what somebody else told us was meant for us to, this is what you're supposed to look like, sound like, um, you know, accomplish in order to be valued. Speaker 3 01:02:59 And so I think like this in a lot of ways, this never inquest of trying to be somebody that you never wanted to be, um, even though it might not be something we think about every day, is also something that is part of this, um, is how do we, how do we identify as the ways, the ways in which that we're not comfortable, whether that it could be communicating, but it could be any other factor. And so I think with this weaponized incompetence, um, more than likely, again, not always, but there's, there's a trauma and a healing that is involved as well with behaviors that people are comfortable with continuing in. It could be like a Lin's blanket in some ways for them. Um, I might be aging myself with that little reference, but hey, <laugh>, that's, I love's Yeah. You know, comfort for the younger folk, uh, that, that don't know where that reference came from, but like, you know, your, your thing, that's your comfort. Speaker 3 01:04:06 Um, you know, and I, I think there is a lot of that. I, I've been actively mad in an argument where I actually wanted to just shut up and stop yelling, but I felt stupid if I did in a, in a certain way, because I realized in my moment of, it wasn't that I was wrong to have my feelings, but in my moment of poorly expressing them, I realized that there was actually something else. And what I was angry about really wasn't the thing that I was talking with them about. Like, I wasn't happy about that thing, but it was a trigger. And I think there's a lot of those triggers that can happen as well when we're, it doesn't mean that the weaponized incompetence isn't real, but again, how we respond to it, and rather than react to it is where, um, I notice within myself, like I have some work to do. Speaker 3 01:04:59 Like I'm gonna address this thing, um, because it is real, but also I really have to check myself because I am in a state of almost constant being a, a reactionary state, a constant reactionary state. How can I shift my energy to be responsive to what I'm feeling, but also to what I'm, what I'm giving? Um, and it's not perfect, and I don't have some like brilliant, um, you know, mic drop that I'm gonna put on anybody in this moment. But it, it is a mic drop enough that I was able to recognize that within myself so that I could start that journey of healing for myself and sort out what was and what wasn't. Speaker 0 01:05:41 Yeah, this work is, is not easy work, <laugh> to shift out the patterns that we've had for it etched into us from childhood. It's like, Speaker 1 01:05:53 Fuck, Speaker 0 01:05:54 Even, it's a life long journey. And it's maddening at times. Speaker 1 01:05:58 I mean, this specific dynamic, I mean, this is like historical. I mean this, this, this is gender roles and things that go back like thousands of years that have been ingrained in all of us, you know? And I, I will say that, you know, while I agree that this is probably a dynamic that is mostly experienced by women, I would imagine, because yeah, this has been our role for thousands of years. I do also have a lot of compassion and sympathy for the men, you know, the men who are in this time where these things are changing. And so many of them also don't have the, um, they haven't been trained or they haven't been conditioned to even question these things, right? And it's just, it's changing and they don't even understand. They feel like the floor beneath them isn't solid anymore, but there isn't a lot of resource. Speaker 1 01:06:50 There aren't a lot of, uh, uh, obvious or, you know, really present resources or support available. So whenever I see those men who are really doing their work, like Mato, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> and other wonderful men in our communities, it's like, I just always really want to acknowledge them verbally, you know, like, I just see you and I really thank you and appreciate, you know, how you're showing up and that you're doing this work. Because, you know, I think that there are a lot of men who probably have this weaponized, um, oh shoot, what is it called? Weaponized Speaker 0 01:07:26 Incompetence. Speaker 1 01:07:27 Incompetence, you know? And, um, you know, it, it's, it's maybe never been made. They've never been made aware of it, or if they were made aware of it, it didn't make sense to them. And they maybe if they even talk to other guys about it, nobody else knows what they're talking about kind of a thing. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So I got Compass with Ben, focus is what I'm trying to say. Speaker 0 01:07:48 <laugh>. Well, yeah. They didn't get, they, they kinda now are paying for what they hadn't been taught, you know? Um, which wasn't their fault, but it's like, it's, it's frustrating, you know? And it's gotta be frustrating for them. It's frustrating for us. It's, no, I mean, Speaker 1 01:08:11 We're all learning and creating new ways together, and we're all fucking up. Speaker 0 01:08:16 Oh yeah. We're human, we're fallible <laugh>, we're all fucked up. Speaker 1 01:08:21 We're all fucked up. We're all fucking up, and we're also all <laugh>, you know, maybe not all, but I, I know a lot of us and more of us every day are making some great strides and doing some great work, and that consciousness movement is spreading and growing and Speaker 0 01:08:35 Yeah. Speaker 3 01:08:36 Yeah. That's good. Speaker 0 01:08:38 Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 3 01:08:39 Elevation leads to the elevation of the collective consciousness, so it really goes back to us. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, even if it's just our decision to remain in the situation we're in, and we find value in that and some sort of purpose. Um, or we don't and we move along. But that could be another pattern too, of like, if you're moving along and like you keep noticing the same thing, um, not to blame yourself, but you could be the common, you know, yeah. The common denominator. Speaker 1 01:09:10 What work aren't you doing, Speaker 3 01:09:12 <laugh>. Yeah. And it could just be in the type of people you're choosing. So it might not be that like you're the, the problem in that way, but it could just be that there's a particular type of person that for whatever reason, you seek out or gravitates towards you for whatever reason, and those, those type of folks just come with a, with a certain flavor Speaker 1 01:09:34 Right there. I just feel like that just summed up so many of the things that we talked about on this call about like, um, you know, like being really selective about who you let in and who you're creating those relationships too, and how much you're giving, you know what I mean? How much you're giving before demonstrated trust, um, and the communication piece and Yeah. Speaker 0 01:09:57 Yeah. It's so good. This is so been so good. Speaker 3 01:10:02 Yeah. I'm excited to, to tune in to you continuing. It sounds like you're gonna do kind a little bit of a series to keep digging deeper and find, so I'm, I'm excited to, I will be tuning in. Speaker 0 01:10:14 It was so great, uh, Mato left couple minutes ago, but I wanna thank him very much for his pers perspective and, and experience. And, uh, thank you Emily, and thank you Sam. And like, it's just been really, it's been really good. Speaker 1 01:10:34 I love doing your podcast anytime. They're always, it's always really, um, helpful. These conversations are always really enlightening and helpful, and so I'm grateful that you're doing this work. Speaker 0 01:10:46 Thank you. I appreciate you being here. And I'll see you, Sam, I can't see you, but Speaker 3 01:10:52 Yeah, I dunno, my internet went weird and I was like, lemme, lemme not join the bandwagon of, so I shut the video down, but, uh, glad that you can still hear me and congratulations again. I, I've never gotta publicly say this to you, but I am so proud of you that you have this platform. Speaker 0 01:11:08 Yeah. Thank you. Speaker 3 01:11:10 I just have to say that I'm glad that you have it a little break. Um, but I'm glad to see you getting back in and getting some different content and perspectives on here. And I, I just want you to know I'm incredibly proud of you, so I'm, don't thank me for coming on. Uh, thank you for being bold and brave to take a step to have a platform like this and maintain it and to give a voice to folks who may not have a platform. So my, my hat goes off to you, my love. Speaker 0 01:11:38 Thank you so much. That means a lot. It really does. I appreciate you. I appreciate both of you. Speaker 3 01:11:45 Of course. Each other. I know it's gonna happen though. Speaker 0 01:11:53 It needs to happen. Speaker 3 01:11:55 Yes. Speaker 0 01:11:56 Fuck, what the fuck? Love you. Thank you so.