Datable Rebels - Abuse

Speaker 1 00:00:15 Hello, welcome to your rebels. Speaker 0 00:00:18 Um, Speaker 1 00:00:20 We are doing a show on, um, verbal abuse today and hopefully in a series of, um, Abuse I'm with my co-hosts Thompson. Speaker 2 00:00:36 Hi. Hi, Speaker 1 00:00:38 And we are excited that you're with us today. Thank you. Hello everybody. Speaker 2 00:00:46 Hello? Speaker 1 00:00:47 How are you, Dan? Speaker 2 00:00:50 Good. Good, good. Speaker 1 00:00:54 Um, I'm gonna go in and introduce. We have prime juicy podcast, A DVS, a survivor mom, life and all around oddball. Welcome Christa. Speaker 2 00:01:11 Hi, sorry. Speaker 1 00:01:16 And then we have, um, Mato Mato uh, is Lakota for bear. His birth parents were addicts. Uh, his dad remarried and his stepmother was white. Was his abuser, uh, verbal, verbal abuse turned into violence and sexual abuse. He is healthy and healing every day. Now, um, to this day, he can hear her telling him no one is going to love you. That sucks. Um, my addiction, his addiction caused by this abuse has, has almost killed him and he grew up in a home where nobody hugged or loved told him they loved him. Um, he would much rather take a beating than be told it's not worthy of love. Welcome macho. Speaker 2 00:02:09 Good afternoon. Speaker 1 00:02:14 Um, all right, Sanna. Speaker 3 00:02:19 Oh, we have, uh, heal, um, Reiki master teacher shamonic practitioner experience psychic medium moon dancer. Reality reality show finalist. Oh my and working on finding an agent to help her first book about her life. Excuse me about her lifetime of connections. So Dana, Speaker 1 00:02:54 Yay. Um, Speaker 4 00:02:58 Do wanna go with your first question? S Speaker 3 00:03:01 Sure. Okay. So, um, my first question for anyone is how do you define verbal abuse? Speaker 4 00:03:16 Who wants to go first? You go ahead. Um, for me, um, verbal abuse is using your words to, for me. Well, for me, in my experiences, it was to degrade me to affirm a feeling that they thought I had to like, just to instill that even more of, you know, no one's gonna love you. People hate you. You're weird. You're not good enough. And a lot of my verbal abuse, um, came from being biracial in my family and not being good enough or being told I was only loved because I shared blood with them. Um, also, um, and just re romantic relationships and verbally beating you down, telling you you're stupid all the time, telling them, you know, no one's ever gonna want you besides them. And, you know, you deserve to be treated this way and verbally being beaten. It is like, that's what it is to me. Speaker 5 00:04:25 Yeah. I think like for me, it's the, it's the, the sole purpose of hurting you as for me, it was apparent. So they knew what my weaknesses were and they would, she would actually tell me those things to keep me in line. So it is it's after this came up from the time that this zoom meeting came up till this morning, I'm, I'm glad to see how much I've grown, because it didn't hurt. I'm like, I can talk about this. I've talked about this before, but I still remember that time when you're seven, eight years old and someone's telling you, they're no, one's gonna love you. You're ugly. I also was biracial. My dad was African American and, and native and I wasn't black enough or I wasn't native enough. And I didn't know where I belonged until I had almost killed myself with cocaine in my addictions. It wasn't until a native man came and, you know, saved my life. And that happened when I was like 24. But like I said, in my profile, I would much rather take a as whoop and a belt whipping a switch then to have to listen to verbal abuse because the beating the pain will go away. The words. No, not so much. Not so much Speaker 4 00:06:09 Those echos. Yeah. The echo is always there. Speaker 6 00:06:15 Yeah. The Speaker 1 00:06:16 Words, fuck with your mind, your mental state it's bad Speaker 6 00:06:30 For me. I just like, um, I don't know where the verbal abuse started. It must have been in my family of origin at home. My family seemed supportive, but somehow or another, I, you know, I don't know what was going on or what went wrong, but my, um, I had very low self-esteem and my first boyfriend kind of was my first husband, who I didn't know, was an abuser, you know, narcissistic abuser and the verbal abuse, you know, began then. But I think the verbal abuse started in my own head before that. I don't know how, and that's what I'm talking about. Family of origin. There had to be some things that I didn't know, but in my head I was hating myself, always hating myself. Like not good enough, not this, not that you did this, you did that. I mean, that's how I would go to sleep. Speaker 6 00:07:27 Those are the beautiful dreams I would have in my head. They were horrors. So it's almost as if somehow that verbal negative language, it had to have been impressed upon me. And, and, and I sat there and did that to myself. And I feel like, because I was verbally abusing myself, it opened a gate for other people throughout my life to step in, and then they could verbally abuse me as well. You know what I mean? So I, I, it's almost as if I gave them permission because I was already doing it, but I, I was doing it because somehow in my childhood, I think it was impressed on me if that makes any sense. So, you know, and then, you know, the verbal abuse happen and then, you know, verbal abuse and physical violence, you know, sometimes hand in hand. Speaker 3 00:08:25 But can I ask a follow up question to you? Um, did your mom experience any like verbal abuse when she was coming up or maybe when she was pregnant with you? Speaker 6 00:08:39 Um, well, her family of origin. Yeah. Verbal abuse. I, I don't know about between my mother and my father, but I do know that she didn't wanna be pregnant with me. So there, there probably was some negative language with them back and forth. He wanted the baby, she didn't want the baby back and forth. Yeah. That would've been going on. Speaker 3 00:09:04 It does like you, you kind of said, like, I, I, I'm trying to remember what you said, but I think you said something like, um, it, you kind of made, it's like, you're taking ownership for the, for it. And I don't think like, it's, it's yours to own. If that makes any sense. I feel like it was kind of passed down to you, Speaker 6 00:09:29 Right. Speaker 3 00:09:29 The receiver of it. And so, right, Speaker 6 00:09:32 Right. That's why I'm saying like, it's, it had to have started with my family of origin. Like, it was impressed upon me. And then, you know, like it, like, it's a wave. Yep. So they gave it to me and then I was taking it on and then I recognized that and was like, oh no, you know, oh, I opened that gate. I need to shut that gate cuz I was negating myself and I'm like, I gotta stop that. Speaker 3 00:09:57 Okay. Speaker 6 00:09:57 So, you know, and when you open the gate, then that allows other people to step in. Right. You know that, I guess that's a better metaphor. Thank you. Speaker 3 00:10:07 <laugh> I just didn't want, I was like, she's I, I feel like she's owning this, this isn't her, this isn't her Speaker 6 00:10:11 Well, yeah, no. Yeah. It came rolling down to me. You know, some things rolled down to myself. I inherited Speaker 3 00:10:17 That. Yeah. Speaker 6 00:10:18 Thank you. Speaker 4 00:10:22 That's kind of a similar story. Um, I was in getting prepared for this. I was talking to my mom about, you know, verbal abuse and things like that. And my mom, my grandmother, she took birth control and continued to be bulimic while she was pregnant with my mother. Um, you know, did not really want her, my grandfather would call my mom a fat whore, stupid bitch, all of these things. And then in looking at my mom's relationship with her, ex-husband who we describe as a Wolf in sheep's clothing. Um, she would do a lot of the same things to him that was done to her. And then in turn it would be done to me and my siblings. Um, so it is, it is very much so a trickle down effect. And also I wasn't necessarily a wanted pregnancy. Um, you know, my mom was told that she was a race trader and evil and all of these things because of who she chose to pro or you know, happened to procreate with and all of those things and that, you know, trickled down and it, like I said, it is very much so a trickle down effect and it is, it is, I could say it would be genetically inherited for you to automatically just go to verbally abusing yourself. Speaker 4 00:11:44 I would say that that is something that could, is very, very scientifically possible. Speaker 1 00:11:53 Yeah. That's interesting because my second question is, um, how much do you think childhood traumas affect the abuser or abuse? It makes a person abusive from being abused obviously. Yeah, it's Speaker 4 00:12:12 That's, that is, that is very very, I, my opinion is that is a very, very true statement. And um, I know even, even in, I'm probably the youngest person in this group just age wise, um, sorry, I'm not, I am only 34 years, but you know, I, I am only 34 years old judgment to me. I'm sorry. I am only 34 years old, but emotionally, emotionally, I feel like I am above a lot of my peers when it comes to being emotionally aware and being able to identify certain things, just because of the traumas that I have gone through and being able to face those traumas and being, you know what, no, I'm not gonna let those happen again. And when I was, you know, younger, I was a young mom, I did find myself and my ex partner falling into the abusive things that I saw when I was a child and the traumas that I experienced. And after that relationship, you know, just dissolved and I, you know, there was probably, there is probably some damage done to my children because of the things that they saw and I'm gonna own that. And I'm gonna do my best to make sure that as they grow now, they're not gonna follow those patterns, you know? Yes. So Speaker 1 00:13:39 Something happens to people that have been through trauma. Like we're very aware of our surroundings and you know, like we've been through some shit, so it makes us older than we are, you know? So it makes sense that you feel older than 34 said 34, right? Speaker 4 00:14:04 Yeah. <laugh> yeah. And you know, like I said, with, with my children, I know I had my first son when I was 20, I was not ready, but just, you know, societal standards, you, you, you know, you make those choices, you get married, you have that baby, no matter what you make it work and it was not working. And there was, you know, really bad addictions in there. And then from my childhood, that could be a whole book. Um, they started to, to show face in my adult life and I have chosen to say no more, but I can't say that for everybody. Speaker 1 00:14:48 Yeah. Good for you. I mean, that's why this is so important to work on healing, hard traumas, which is a lifelong journey. Speaker 4 00:14:56 <laugh> mm-hmm, <affirmative>, especially with chil other children involved who don't, I don't wanna send any more damage out into the universe than yeah. Than needs to be. So Speaker 5 00:15:13 For me, it ended up like, so it all focused around my stepmother and she was young. There were eight children in the house under the age of 11. That's how we were all steps. We were the same age or steps or halfs. But my birth mother when I was a baby left me at a Catholic church on a Sunday. And I rejoicing that because she could have fucking killed me, put me in a garbage can flush me down a toilet, whatever. And, um, but my stepmother knew that was a sticking point for me because I'm like, what's wrong with me that my mother left me, not my other siblings took me and left me. Like, didn't want me, so that always bugged me. And then my stepmother would verbally abuse me using that to keep me in place. And that's what she would do. She would verbally abuse me until I, I guess my spirit was broken. Speaker 5 00:16:24 I would just be a good boy for the weekend or the day or the afternoon or whatever. Um, it did lead to, um, to violence, the verbal, the verbal abuse, because we lived in a small Northern town. Stepmom was a nurse. Dad was, had a radiology. We were a pretty prominent family in our little town. But back in the seventies, nobody talked about shit that happened in the family. It was all secret. And a situation happened where I ended up in front of a judge asking me if I wanted to go to foster care. And I already had a, I had a teacher that was a gonna take me in as a foster. And what happened was, is that became common knowledge in that tiny little town because it was court. It was seen in front of a judge. So now the veil has been lifted and everybody knows about this fucking horrific abuse that's going on. Speaker 5 00:17:31 And that day when I went home with my stepmom and my dad, because my dad cried in the courtroom and said, Matos, my only son left in my house and I thought, holy shit, my dad really loves me. I'm gonna stay with him that day. When I, I went home, I was sleeping in my bed and my stepmother stabbed me in my chest right above my heart. She tried to kill me. And after that, the sexual abuse started. She started manipulating me in regards to she's the only one that's gonna love me. And as a young boy, it was confusing as fuck. And I actually kept that secret up until two years ago when I finally told my brother. Speaker 5 00:18:23 And so I always think like verbal abuse is a catalyst. And I see in the, in the folks that I'm with that it's ongoing and it's long term and it affects people differently. Almost everybody that I bring to a sweat lodge with me for healing was either sexually abused or physically abused. And it just it's detrimental to their health, their mental health. And I always think like verbal abuse is the catalyst to other abuses coming. And I think the thing for me and my family is, is that I have two older sisters. One is 61 and one is 58. And they are literally trapped in their 13 year old mind from the abuse that they suffered. And, um, I don't know, like I said, verbal abuse for me. I'd rather take the beating than the verbal abuse. That's what I have to share. Speaker 1 00:19:33 Thank you for sharing. I'm so sorry about what happened to you. Speaker 5 00:19:38 I'm okay with it. Like I really, you know, in the eighties I was in New York city. I was addicted to cocaine for a little bit. Almost killed me, went to prison and it saved my life. And I'm good. I mean, I'm good. I can look back and see the abuse and see the cycle of it. But as far as like having it affect me today, someone told me in my addiction, and this is how I got clean. This lady looked at me and was like, fucking Mato all those people that hurt you are dead. They're in the ground. They're dust. Why are you killing yourself for these people that hurt you, who are now dead. They don't deserve your life. And then I was like, fuck, that makes a lot of sense. Like why, like, why am I hurting myself for shit that doesn't exist anymore? Like they're dead. And that kind of cleared my mind on that. Speaker 1 00:20:42 It's a powerful thing to say, and it's true, but it's also like you have to do the work, you know, like it doesn't just go away. Speaker 5 00:20:52 And that's what my medicine man told me. I have a medicine man that passed away earlier this year, but he was my medicine man for many years. And he said, creator, or meet you halfway creator will meet you halfway. You gotta go to that halfway point and then creator will pick you up and, and continue on. But if you don't do anything, nothing's gonna change. You have to do something. You have to, you have to speak about it. You have to, you know, walk your walk and you have to be, you have to be really honest with yourself. Like I, I had so many secrets, so many secrets and I was good at covering them up. But every once in a while that door would open. And if this shit would just flat out and I'd be like freaking out, I'm like, oh, I haven't really taken care of that. I've just tucked it away. Really good. Speaker 5 00:21:52 So I tell people all the time I, I went to a nine, nine week outpatient and I told the psychiatrist, I was like, are you willing to hear this? Cuz I've talked to psychiatrists before. And they told me that they couldn't handle my shit. And I spent nine weeks and one hour a day with a psychiatrist and I just unloaded everything in my life. And I put it out there. And what I did was that when I woke up in the morning, I would go to Myar and I would put one thing on my alter and it would stay on my alter till I was comfortable with where it was and it wasn't hurting me anymore. And that's kind of, you know what I go through. I'm uh, I'm, I'm getting ready to have another sweat in a couple weeks just for that same thing, you know? And I'm teaching people that aren't native, like what this means, this rebirth that happens. And I have to do it for myself. You know, we're, we're, we're coming outta winter, we're coming into spring. You know, it's a time for life and new growth. So I'm glad to be here. Speaker 1 00:23:07 Thank you for doing the work and, and calling others into it. I appreciate you. Speaker 5 00:23:13 Thank you. Speaker 1 00:23:14 Mm-hmm <affirmative> do you have another questions again? Speaker 3 00:23:19 Or, um, another question is, um, at what point did you believe, or did you know that it was verbal, verbal abuse? So at what point did you realize what was happening to you After I left? Speaker 4 00:23:45 It took that long. Speaker 3 00:23:49 So when you left it wasn't you left for other reasons, obviously, and then you, you looked back and you were like, Speaker 4 00:23:55 Yeah. Speaker 3 00:23:57 Verbally abused, that kind of Speaker 4 00:23:58 Thing. Yeah, I left, um, I mean the situation that I left, um, I was 19 teen. Uh, I ended up me and my mom got into a fight. I ended up moving in with him and his mom who had a very interesting dynamic as well. Um, his mom was also very verbally abusive to him, um, and everything. And so I ended up living with them. Um, I ended up getting a job. So then the financial abuse started where I was the only one with the job. I was the only one that was paying for everything. They were on assistance. They had a nice house and it was like $80 a month. And that was all they paid. I paid for everything else. Um, okay. Whatever. I was young in love, whatever I'm doing, my grown, my grown girl thing, you know, <laugh> like, I'm gonna prove my mom wrong. Speaker 4 00:24:52 I can do this. And, and then it just devolved, his mom ended up leaving the house. Um, all of the power got shut off electricity, all of these things. Um, and so the financial abuse was super strong and then he proceeded to show up at my jobs. And if I was working with a male coworker would make it impossible to work. I could not work. I would literally have to leave work or that other person would leave work because he would sit outside and just be outrageous for no reason. Um, well he also had his own issues, but like, and that was that showing its face there. And in, in the midst of that, there was always, oh, you're stupid. Oh, you're cheating on me. Oh, you, you're not grateful. You have a house to live in and oh, you need to do this because X, Y, and Z. Speaker 4 00:25:45 And then I slowly started to pull away and I did end up moving back in with my mom. I did try to break up with him. He cried for three hours and did not believe me. And then so in my, my brain and my processing, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna cheat on. 'em if someone cheats on you, because that's what I learned in my childhood. If someone cheats on you, that means you, they don't want you, you know, like you you're done. Like they don't want you anymore. You're not good enough. So in my mind, it's like, okay, I'm gonna cheat on him. He proceeded to hold me hostage for three days, rape, beat spit on me. Uh, honestly that was one of the worst things that has ever happened to me is being spit on, on top of being told that I was a whore and a bitch and a slut. Speaker 4 00:26:36 And even before then, before that situation that I know is not correct how to end a relationship. Those words were being said to me. So I believed in, it's like, okay, well, if you're gonna think I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. And I'm also gonna let you know that I don't want you anymore, but it backfired. And he ended, ended up stalking me heavily. Um, and in the midst of that, he was still verbally abusing me, um, through voicemail. Um, other people that he knew would also verbally abuse me for him, I guess. And until it was like, until he actually went to jail, which didn't happen until like three years later, like he drove a car into a house, tried to hit kill me, um, which show up at my house. Like I, I was not safe. And the police always said that they couldn't do anything. Speaker 4 00:27:32 Even though they instated the restraining order because they didn't serve him papers. There was nothing they could do. Um, but that entire time it was just nothing but verbal attacks because he couldn't physically be with me at that time. And then finally, when he went to jail and it all like stopped for the most part, I realized that the words that he were saying was worse than the actual physical things he was doing, I would have rather him show up at my door and punch me in the face than call me and berate me for no reason or call me and berate my voicemail because I, I would rather him like physically have hurt me because that was exhausting. It was exhausting. But until I left and fully was able to detach, did I realize that that was there and same with my mom and her ex-husband I didn't realize a lot of the things that he said were verbal abuse because I really only saw some of the physical things. So yeah. And I know for a lot of people, it's not until they leave that they realize that those passive aggressive digs or those, you know, just little, sometimes it's something little like, like I'm bad at doing laundry. <laugh>, you know, it could, it could like, oh, well at least at least I can do laundry. You know, like even something stupid like that. If it is, you know, you're not good at, and they know that they're gonna use it. And sometimes until you leave, you don't know. Speaker 5 00:29:26 Yeah. For me, I kind of knew that it was gonna come to an end when I, this, this is, this is a story. I tell people we were poor. I mean, we were, we didn't have a lot. So we would get like commodity peanut butter. And then we'd once if we were really fancy, we'd get jelly and sometimes a jelly would have strawberries in it. So as a kid, I would take the strawberries out of the jelly and put 'em on the side of the plate, cuz I wanted them for my dessert. And my stepmom saw me putting my fingers in my peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And she smashed my hand in the jelly sandwich and I jumped up and I, I told her, I swore her. I said, if you ever fucking touch me again, I'm gonna kill you in your sleep. And that's when I knew I had the power cuz I saw the fear in her eyes. Speaker 5 00:30:25 I think she realized that I was 14. I was strong. And could I kill her? Hell yeah, I could kill her in her sleep. And that, and that to me was the point where I decided that I didn't have to take this shit anymore, you know, but it doesn't always end that. Well, what I ended up doing was I was so desensitized. The violence that army recruiter saw that in me, I had witnessed homicides. I'd witnessed murder up close and Los and I was desensitized to death and they took advantage of that. And as 17, my dad signed me into basic training. And by the time I was 19, I was over in Beirut after the Marine barracks bombing in the early eighties and I became a killer. That's what I was. And I realized I was good at it. And that brought on a whole nother level of healing that had to take place. Speaker 5 00:31:34 You know, that military, uh, service back in the days when they didn't have reporters and photographers in your, in your platoon, you were just free reign. You could do whatever you wanted in that city. And then after the military, in the native community, we have something called Hector and I became Hector. And Hector is someone that you get a note to. You send a message somehow, but Hector is the person. When the police, the court, everything that's supposed to protect, you doesn't protect you and you need someone to right or wrong. And I spent many years being Hector. And I didn't realize till later that I was still trying to kill myself by being Hector. Cause if you are, if your ex took off with your baby, I would chase him down and get the baby back. If a pimp was in your life, I would go after the pimp. Speaker 5 00:32:33 And I realized that I was still not dealing all the way back to that verbal abuse of no one loves you. No one's gonna love you. You're not gonna amount to shit. You know? And what it did for me really in the long run was I raised two very healthy children and I have a 26 year old son and a 31 year old daughter. My daughter is successful. She owns her own restaurant in Houston. She doesn't have any addictions. She doesn't have bad men in her life. And my son is mechanical engineer and he doesn't have any addictions and he's a good kid. So I always just look at my children and go, yeah, you know, I healed well enough to raise good kids and they never saw, I almost coddled my children. I, I wanted to keep 'em safe all the time. I didn't want anybody in the world to hurt them. Speaker 5 00:33:36 And some of that codling, you know, ended up causing a few, you know, I'm like, no, you have to go to college. You have to leave home. <laugh> you have to go to college now. And um, but I look at my children and, and, and know that I've healed and know that I've I've I've progressed. The sad point is, is that I'm 57 and I'm, I'm, I'm being treated for cancer right now. And um, so that always, for me, I'm just glad that I have good kids that never had to really experience, you know, that type of verbal abuse or that violence. Like I said, it always comes back to verbal. It always seems to come back to that verbal abuse and then you just accept more forms of abuse, cuz you've already accepted that verbal abuse is something and it it's, uh, like you and I both said, I'd rather take a ass whooping. I'd rather have you just come and punch me in my face, get it over with, put some ice on my fucking nose than deal with verbal abuse that hurts and cuts so deeply, you know? And then you realize like what a son of a bitch, you know, that hurts me. And you say those things and you do it anyway. That's hatred. That's just hatred Speaker 4 00:35:05 Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I'd rather have the scar of like, like I have, I, I self-harmed a lot because it was easier to bring that internal pain out physically. So you could look down and say, yep, there it is. There's that pain. That's what that is. And instead of, you know, not knowing why you're angry, not knowing why you're sad, not knowing why you hurt there's that physical part. So like instead just come punch me in the face. So then I, I feel it all the like now instead of forever. Speaker 6 00:35:43 Yeah. I kind of feel like it's somebody, it's an attack on the soul, you know, like a bruise is an attack on the body and yeah, you can physically harm the body psychologically. So you know, like someone's raped, but it's kinda like the verbal abuse. They know they're hurting your soul. They're punching deep. And like, for me, that goes around, around in my mind all that time, that circulates. And then we keep harming ourselves because we keep, you know, it, you know, how do you, how do you break that? How do you get rid of that from your soul and your thoughts? You know, it's a lot of work to stop that. And, uh, what Mattau was saying about, you know, our children, I would, you know, when I had kids, I was like, I treated them as if they were adults. Basically. That's how I talked to 'em, you know, I did Google Gaga, but you know, people talk about the terrible twos and stuff. Speaker 6 00:36:36 See, this is me not wanting to roll it forward onto them. Cuz I heard people saying, oh the terrible twos. And I just kept talking to my children like sentient beings and good people. And I never got the terrible twos of the terrible three step because my children, you know, were honored or something and you know, they weren't, they weren't this. And so when I'm out in society and I hear people talking negative negatively to a two or three year old, you know, that triggers me. And I, I wanna say to them, don't talk to them like that because they're going to reach your expectations. You're calling them an idiot or stupid or Brad or all these negative words. They're gonna rise to that expectation. But if you tell 'em what a good person, they are, good child and everything they'll rise to that expectation too. Speaker 6 00:37:31 So, you know, like it's all these little small micro pains and targets just even to little children and stuff like that. I mean, these are the small aggressions that might not be the O the big ones, you know, the obvious ones, but even these small ones and they add up and stuff like that. So, you know, and then, you know, some of that abuse will start to grow in some families or not. But I, I just see these people talking negatively to little children and I'm like, oh, this is how it starts. This is where it starting. Don't talk to your child like that. You know, they understand what you're saying, you know, we, we just do, you know, it's just, just if you're little and you can't form the words, it's kinda like learning a foreign language. You, you can't maybe form the words, but you can hear and understand what they're saying. Speaker 6 00:38:25 And I'm like, children understand, so these little microaggressions or even major ones, you know, people sit there at a baby, you blankety blank baby. And it's like, oh my God, that baby understands. You know, even if they can't say it, they, they know. So yeah. And I think, and, and then all those microaggressions, like for me, yeah, it began, I was sexually abused as a child. I think it started in first grade, you know, that opens that door. That being DISD, disvalue dis valued. And here's somebody that comes along and they love you. Aren't you great. You know, so yeah. I think that abuse rolls forward like that. So anyway, so a whole tale, Speaker 4 00:39:15 Oh, I have a, a weird it's, you know, it happened to me when I was in kindergarten. This is how I found out I was biracial because nobody in my family really talked about it and it stuck with me. And it gave me this weird complex with my hair. Um, a kid called me a ramen noodled head inward, and that has stuck with me my entire life. It wasn't even a family member and I've never seen this person again, don't even remember their name, but I remember those words and that's, you know, that's started off, you know, all of the questions to my family. Like what do they mean? You know, I, my kindergarten teacher explained to me why they said that I didn't hear it from a family member. And so those words have always stuck with me. And I know it wasn't, I mean, obviously those are things that he heard at home because I mean, I don't expect most kindergartners to say those things. <laugh> I D I dunno, but world's crazy nowadays. Um, this was in the nineties, so I guess it's not too far from the, the course in Oklahoma, especially, but yeah, those, those words still stick with me today. And some days I still have issues with my hair because of that, Speaker 1 00:40:42 That's crazy how somebody can say something to you and you just remember it for the rest of your life. And they don't even know Speaker 4 00:40:52 Mm-hmm <affirmative> Speaker 6 00:40:53 It's wild. Speaker 4 00:40:56 Yeah. Speaker 1 00:40:58 Yeah. Speaker 4 00:41:00 Or even sometimes when it's your parents, who were your verbal abusers, they'll just flat out tell you, I've never said that to you. Those words have never come outta my mouth. I would never do that to you. So not only are they verbally abusing you now, they're gaslighting you to be like, am I really remembering my childhood the right way? Mm-hmm <affirmative> like, wait, am I the crazy one? You know? So it's, it's a vicious circle. It's a vicious circle. Speaker 3 00:41:28 And it could be that they either don't remember saying those things to you because it was so and natural or yeah. They realized, they said those things and now you're in a different place, so they have to change it. And I never said that, are you sure you must on someone else? Not me. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so Speaker 1 00:41:51 That isn't my fuck is a mind. Fuck. Speaker 3 00:41:53 Yeah. Speaker 4 00:41:56 Mm-hmm <affirmative> oh, yeah. And I feel sorry about that. Um, so like my mom, she was raised, I guess, what would be the silent generation? Um, she was born in 1969. Um, and so just some of the things that she'll even say to her parents when we would, you know, sometimes those conversations would get brought up. They would be like, we're not gonna talk about that. They just, Nope. Never like, and I'm like, how could you not? And I still find my mom sometimes defaulting to that when it's something that makes her uncomfortable. When I bring up certain things that happen in my childhood, it just it's, it's done. We're done like, Nope, Nope. We're not talking about it. Which sometimes I feel like is, is worse. Cuz it's like, well, but it happened and you're not denying it. Speaker 4 00:42:55 So let's, let's figure out why, you know, I'm, I'm a why person. I'm like, let's figure out why this made everybody uncomfortable. Why are you upset with me? Why am I upset with you? Let's not let this go away. If it's, if it, if you feel so deeply that you're that upset or bothered bothered by it, let's talk about it. That that's the type of person I have become because I don't like to let things sit and just simmer, unless it is one of those things where you have to process and properly express your emotions because doing things in anger is never a good thing. Speaker 1 00:43:32 Yeah. But to have something, you know, like to wanna talk about this with your parent, whatever, and they don't want to it's so dismissive Speaker 6 00:43:45 Well, and like you, like, Christ's asking for, there's been verbal abuse and she's asking for verbal healing, it's verbally healing. You're being a verbal healer, you know, you've experienced the other side of it. So you have that side. So I think that's a beautiful thing. And hopefully, you know, someday maybe she'll be accepting of it, but you at least planted that seed. You know, you planted the seed, it'll get some roots and maybe grow, get a little green. Maybe later you can ask again, but you know, you're a verbal healer. So that's beautiful Speaker 1 00:44:22 Like that verbal healer, Speaker 3 00:44:24 It's kind of like too, you know, not knowing, I mean, you probably know some of the things your parent, your mom went through, but when you look at it like that, the people in previous generations, um, you know, things happen and you don't speak on it for, for, like you said, the silent generation for so many years, there's been so many things. Even with, you know, I kind of look at this like as a, as a black person, if I lived in the slavery days, would I be one of those people that were killed instantly because of my mouth? Or would I be one of those people that would've turned into like some, a submissive person and did whatever NASA said, because I didn't want everybody else to get hurt and I didn't wanna be hurt. And it's kinda like, I think about that all the time. And I'm like, I'm so glad I wasn't born back then because I don't know what, what, what type of person I would've been. Um, but how did I get, how did I get there? What was I, what was I thinking when I said that, but Speaker 4 00:45:29 You're talking about the silent generation, Speaker 3 00:45:31 But yeah. So like, even back in slavery days, you know, when there were people and they wanted to get away, it's like, no, no, no, we can't, we can't interrupt. What's here. We gotta stay here. And it's kind of like a lot of times people, they don't know what's on the other side, so they don't wanna rock the boat or they've put themselves in a position to where they've learned to cope. And so they don't even realize like, they've, it's kind of like, they've completely gaslighted themselves. They do not believe they have whatever happened. And it's completely like shut down from their memory. They've disassociated with it completely. And so not sticking up for your mother, but just saying like, she could have completely disassociated, not wanna realize it. Not, Speaker 4 00:46:20 Not, oh Speaker 3 00:46:21 Yeah. Not realize it at all. And don't know what it it'll take for her to get her own healing. But Speaker 4 00:46:28 Cool. And I know a lot of, some of the things from my childhood is when she was with her, her ex-husband like he was the type he'd write a hundred thousand dollars hot check and then say, no, I didn't. Um, <laugh> like, it's like, but I have the proof that wasn't me. He was that type of person. And so I, I do not fault her for having any type of dissociation with that situation, because it was so traumatic for her being in a romantic relationship with somebody that just evil. That's all I can say about him is just evil. And I know the reason why she let it happen is because she was told by her family that she would never do better. She would never get out of Oklahoma. She would always be that white trash, you know, native girl that, you know, nobody's ever gonna love. And she was with him and she got out of Oklahoma. Speaker 4 00:47:24 She, she was able to get out. She was able to do things that her family told her she wouldn't be able to do. And I know that's a big reason why she stayed. And then, because I saw that I, you know, I kind of internalized like, okay, sometimes you just have to deal, deal with certain things to get what you want. But nowadays I have adopted the, the motto of a no part of our relationship. Is it okay for you to speak to me like that? To coworkers, friends, bosses, random people that feel like they can just come at me sideways for no reason. And I will tell people, you know, you do not get to talk to me like that. And when you can speak to me like an adult, then we can have the conversation and I will just walk away. And it's amazing how dumbfounded people get when you do that, when you don't let them speak to you, the way that other people let them speak to them, they're like, whoa, whoa, they, they either get angry or they completely shut down because they don't know what to do. Speaker 4 00:48:26 I even tell my kids, I teach my kids that I was like, if someone is making you feel less than by the words that they're saying, you tell them they're not allowed to speak to you that way. And when they can speak to you in a respectful manner, then we can finish the conversation. I don't care. You don't, you don't just get respect because you're in, in an authoritative way. Cuz one of my children at school has issues. <laugh> with some people and some people have come at him sideways and he has used that. And then the situation got resolved in a proper manner. So it's Speaker 1 00:49:04 A boundary. It's good. Mm-hmm Speaker 2 00:49:06 <affirmative> Speaker 4 00:49:08 This, this one that I tell everybody, everybody. And I'm also, I'm like, I'm a server and a bartender and I've said it to some of my guests too. I'm like, no, Nope. That's not how this is gonna work. Yes, I am a server, but I am not your servant. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like, I I'm not no, Nope, Speaker 6 00:49:28 No problem. There's that verbal healing. You're being a verbal healer. <laugh> heal it. Speaker 4 00:49:35 You know? And I'm not always the best. I'm still learning and I'm still growing. And you know, like I said, with my children, when I was younger, I probably said things that have stuck with them. And I, like I said, I'm gonna own that. I'm gonna own the shit out of it. And if my children decide when they're older, Hey, you know what, I'm gonna catch ties with you because of X, Y, and Z. And until you can fix X, Y, and Z, we're not gonna have a relationship. And I sure as hell will go fix X, Y, and Z, because that's only fair. Speaker 1 00:50:06 Yeah. Speaker 6 00:50:11 That's beautiful. Speaker 1 00:50:18 Um, yeah. I just respect all three of you. I mean, healing that you've been doing and, and then having kids on, you know, in the mix on top of that, it's pretty amazing. Um, my next question is like, have, if you have kids, have they witnessed you being verbally abused? Speaker 4 00:50:53 Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. Yes. And even with my current husband, we we've been together for 10 years now and we've, you know, essentially grew up together. Like we've known each other forever, which is, you know, we, we started our relationship as friends. We were friends before anything ever happened. I think we were we're in high school when we met. Um, and then like we went on whatever. We just were really good friends, always had a really good connection. Um, and then I was done with my partner and he was done with his partner at the time. And we just happened to get together. Um, low and behold, we were both, uh, very severe in addiction. Speaker 1 00:51:36 Mm-hmm Speaker 4 00:51:38 Very severe, severe in addiction that we both tried to say that neither one of us were in <laugh>, you know, cuz we're like, oh, we shouldn't do that together. And then we ended up doing it together and it, you know, and in that time I found myself coming extremely, extremely submissive and letting him kind of get away with whatever he wants. And then one day in my mind it just switched over and I was like, oh hell no. And so then I became very combative and very verbally abusive, not gonna lie. I did that. And then when we finally ended up living together with my two boys, we were still in some of our addiction. We weren't using hard drugs anymore, but we were, you know, dealing with the repercussions of starting a relationship in a heavy addiction coming out of that heavy addiction and still sometimes falling back into those patterns and um, everything, because it takes a while when you, we doing meth, it takes a while. Speaker 4 00:52:42 If your brain, your brain never goes back to normal, but it takes a while for you to not have those, those tendencies, those paranoia, those, those outbursts of anger. It, it takes a while. And so my boys, they were, um, in kindergarten or between kindergarten and third grade, um, when I would say that, you know, that was probably the hardest part in our relationship. And I'm so sad that I let them see those things. And then we had our daughter and my husband chose to continue to drink. And I wasn't. And so, you know, when someone's a drinker, they, you know, make promises that they're gonna do this and that and everything. And I would get angry at him when he wouldn't do those things. And then I shut down and then he stopped drinking and I found myself whenever he would say something and didn't do it as fast as I expected him to do it. Speaker 4 00:53:50 I would fall back into thinking those addictive ways of, oh, well, he's never gonna do it unless I'm a bitch, he's not gonna do it. So I'm gonna say all these things and I would bring up some hurt. And, and you know, we have, both of us have said extremely hurtful things to each other. And you know, I, I took some time to myself and I, and I'm not gonna lie. I used some psychedelics for opening my mind to process some situations. Um, and you know, I just came to the realization. I'm like, I'm, you know, I get so angry and frustrated because you've said these things before, but it was when you were in a, when you were heavy in your addiction. And so my trigger and my experience is to automatically go to being mean and hateful because when you were in your addiction, that was the only way to get some type of response out of you for you to do anything. Speaker 4 00:54:55 And now neither one of us, I mean, neither one of us drink it's none of us like drinking. It's, it's not really what we need to do and we don't do meth or all of those things anymore. Um, and it's just easier for us to say, Hey, I'm sorry that I got upset or you know what, I'm not gonna continue this conversation because I'm getting upset. And I don't wanna say mean things. And then, and our kids have been seeing that. And they have also started, you know, instead of being explosive and upset, they they'll process. Or sometimes if they can't process, we'll say, you know, what, how about you just go to your room, take some time when you're ready to talk, we'll talk, you know, like I it's, it's hard to have kids and have them see that. Um, I know I hated seeing it when I was a kid. Speaker 4 00:55:51 It, it was awful. And then, you know, it just translated into the relationship that my siblings and I had together. Um, the relation, you know, sometimes I felt like I had no respect. Like, it's almost like you lose respect for the parent that you see taking it or not necessarily lose. That sounds bad. You don't lose respect for them, but you see in certain situations, like if a male is seeing their father degrade their women, that's how they think that's gonna be. And you, I lost my train of thought, cuz it's not a dis, it's not a disrespect. It's you see them as the weaker parent, there we go. That's you see them as the weaker person, the person that, you know, you can get away with treating that way. And I have seen in some situations where you can tell that that child is just acting like whichever parent is abusing the other one and it's just like, oh my God. And I don't. That is one of the biggest reasons why I've chosen to take hard, hard looks at myself in situations because I know I've been that person and I, it didn't feel good. And I don't know why, I, I don't understand how somebody could feel good doing that to somebody else, you know? So like I just, yeah, it's, I, I can't go back and change what my children saw, but if they ask questions, I can give them the answers and I'm willing to. Speaker 1 00:57:40 Yeah. I mean, I think that's why people do it. Cause they don't obviously feel good about themselves or, you know what I mean? Like, cause people probably, I mean like machos stepmother, whatever. She probably hated herself. And your ex you know, like these people did not love themselves. Obviously Speaker 6 00:58:05 People hurt people. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And um, I know for like, with my children at, as adults now, my elder son, you know, we were talking about, you know, what's going on because I could see that my husband would verbally or I suspected would abuse them verbally when I wasn't around, I worked odd hours. And so I think I, cuz I hear him once in a while saying some things and I'm like, did I just hear that? What there'd be like these shadows? And I wasn't quite sure what I was hearing, but I know when the children were away, he'd verbally abused me. Um, but I'm sure they leaked over. I'm sure the kids heard him verbally abusing me and, and I don't even realize it, but I know the major abuse was when I was alone when the kids weren't here. So I, I believe that he did the same when I wasn't around. Speaker 6 00:59:04 And my older son said to me, um, that he blamed me for the abuse because I took it. Um, which is like saying that, you know, yeah, lack of boundaries, he's overstepping me and I'm allowing this verbal abuse to go on all the time. And I didn't feel strong enough to stand up to him and have a boundary and say, no, you know? So he just stepped all over all of us. And so my son was trying to say to me, you know, cuz uh, there was a conversation about, you know, his father like look at how this is, you know, the abuse he's doing and my son is saying, well, you allow it. You know? So I have, you know, some ownership in that of like, yeah, I'm a broken person and I'm allowing people to step on me, but you know, that just said to me, I gotta heal myself there. Speaker 6 01:00:04 I gotta, I gotta get strong. Yeah. I do need to find a voice. Yeah. I do need to step up. So even though his words, my son's words were sort of negative. They were to me healing and they were very much the truth and yeah. And I shouldn't be taking in and I need to step up. Um, at one point with this son, my husband, he was, you know, I, I think, you know, obviously sometimes abusing him and he was trying, you know, to tell me in like disciplinary actions or something for me to go along with what he wanted to do to our son, the discipline or whatever. And I was usually always against it. And um, and my, so my husband felt that I was betraying him. No, you know, you should agree. You know, we should both be doing this to our son and my son that same son said to me, had mom, had you gone along with father? Speaker 6 01:00:59 I would've killed myself. And I know that he has struggled with suicidal, you know, thoughts. I have two, but he's like, because I didn't go along, I stood up, got a boundary and didn't go along with my husband. You know, there was, he knew somebody was having a voice for him. You know that that's another kind of voice, you know, that I was standing up saying no, you know, and the thing that is that son, that same son was, you know, diagnosed with autism and everything. So it's, you know, growing up as a child and it's like, why would you abuse this, all this child who needs so much support, you know? And the, the second son, you know, everybody's like, well, he wasn't the one verbally abused. And I'm like, there's another kind of abuse because he's got survivor's guilt, he's hearing and seeing his mother and brother, cuz we were the ones that the abuse, you know, came at, but he was the golden child, but he knew and heard it all. Speaker 6 01:02:05 He was hearing how we were being treated. So he had survivors guilt because he was verbally talked to differently. He had, you know, different a different world. So it was me and my older son, cuz we're both broken, but then the golden child. So you would think the golden child would be take advantage of that. But no, he, he sided with us cuz he saw how the abuse was. He, he would say things like, oh I see how it is. He didn't experience it. But he got, um, he had survivor's guilt from it, you know? So he's got his, you know, issues in that way, you know, so, but you know, as much as I tried, our abuser did separate us in, in the verbal abuse, you know, so that, I didn't know. And then, you know, he didn't want the kids to know anyway. Speaker 1 01:03:08 Yeah. Speaker 6 01:03:12 Do you, Speaker 1 01:03:14 How old are the kids now? Speaker 6 01:03:16 30 and 27. Speaker 1 01:03:19 How are they doing? Speaker 6 01:03:22 Um, okay. They're both single. They've always been largely single and there's a lot of me that worries that they, you know, have got relationship issues, you know, that that's playing out in their lives. I feel like they're both kind of more like, well I worry that my older son might, you know, the one with Asperger's might have more what seems like narcissistic tendencies of not being able to connect, you know, the, you know, that connection kind of a thing. And the younger one I think is more like me, the very codependent empath and lets people stomp on him. But he's in, he's only had one girlfriend for two years. He's 27 and the other one has had a couple of women. But I think, you know, I D you know, I'm, I'm watching and hoping that they can not play out the situation that they grew up in, but can heal themselves and, and not let that ball keep rolling forward, you know, but they're, they're both not choosing to be with anybody right now. Speaker 6 01:04:35 And I keep, I tease them and I'm like, it's okay. It's okay. You're just missing out on your first divorce. So don't worry about it. You know, we all have that first, first divorce thing, you know, before you're 30, you know, I'm like, you're saving yourself money. It's okay. But you know, that's just joking, but it's like, you know, I'm kind of like, ah, you know, you're fine. Get to know yourself, be by yourself. It's better that you're learning and knowing, and growing by yourself, you don't need that, that extra thing until you're really, really ready, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> and so I'm hoping that they'll, I mean, they are a good, they are good men. They're very good protectors of women and everything. You know what I mean? So I, and I'm, I'm very honored that, um, that they're both protectors of women. So they're that that's good. Cuz they could have been harmful people. You know what I mean? Like, you know, and they're not, so I have to give them that credit makes me happy. Yeah. Speaker 1 01:05:37 They love their mama. Speaker 6 01:05:39 Yeah. Speaker 1 01:05:41 So that makes sense that they're protectors. So love mm-hmm <affirmative> ums. Do you have one more question? I think we're gonna have to wrap it up soon. How's everybody feeling? Speaker 3 01:06:01 So let's see. Um, gosh, I have, I I'm like which one? Um, I guess I'm, I'm curious about this one. So did you, um, did you guys confront the person that was, I know some of you have kind of alluded to it, but um, did you confront the person that was abusing you? If yes. You know, what was their, what was their response reaction? I think we, we kind of talked about that. Did everybody, I know Krista, you kind of mentioned it. It was kind of like, no, but um, maybe for you others, what was their reaction? If you confronted them? Speaker 5 01:06:56 I have a story that in understanding my, my stepmother's situation, she was actually sexually abused by her father. So I think a lot of that, you know, stem from that and going back to that grandfather, her father, it wasn't until later in life that I realized that not only had he raped both my sisters, but he also raped his own grandchild, children, both my steps and my half sisters. He was a, he, he didn't give a fuck. He raped everybody. And I didn't find that out. And in Northern Minnesota, 4th of July, we always go to the same Lutheran campground. And, and I had been away for a while. I didn't, I'm not really close with my siblings. I'd been away for a few years, but they had children. I had my son. So I was like, let me at least try to introduce my son to these, you know, nieces and nephews. And both my stepsisters had told me this Lonnie, who we called Bobby had raped him. Speaker 5 01:08:22 And, um, during this Hector period that I was going through defending everybody, I, uh, I, I set up a, a long range rifle on a dirt road, set it all up, had 'em in my sights. He was his, my cross hairs were in his, on his head. And I was laying on the ground and a big, huge buck just showed up out of the dirt, just appeared. And I wasn't on my spiritual journey, but I knew that was a sign for something. So I packed up my weapon and I went away and at her funeral, he was there and my siblings were still terrified. I'm like, you're at a funeral for your mother. And you're terrified cuz this guy's in the room. I'm like, and, and to see that terror, I was like, damn. Speaker 5 01:09:26 So I went over at the funeral and I, and I told him that story that I had almost killed him. And uh, I saw the sheer terror in his eyes. And I was like for years, my, my, my, my sister who was a, a hippie child used to, they used to hitchhike all over Northern Minnesota. That's what you did in the seventies. You hitchhike. And all these girls would talk about this gold S 10 pickup with a white topper. And that was his car. That was his vehicle. And, um, I, I, don't going back to that question that you were talking before. My, my children never saw me, uh, either give verbal abuse or take verbal abuse. They saw me as a gentle giant. My name means bear, but they have seen me become violent when it was needed in a situation. And that always bothered me cuz I was a sweet old dad. Speaker 5 01:10:37 But when push came to shove, I was, I was gonna step in and, and make right the wrong, whether it was inside my family in a target parking lot, inside a Walmart, wherever it was happening, I was gonna step in when he talked about little kids, I was in a Walmart and this boyfriend was talking to his girlfriend's little boy who was like seven and you know, calling him a, you know, dumb little nigger. And I'm like, you don't say that to him. I actually like stop that little boy is gonna gonna remember that shit forever. I told him I'm in my fifties. And I remember hearing that, but once again for me, like all my abusers are dead and I take solace in that and right wrong or indifferent, you know, they're dead. They can't hurt anybody anymore. So I kind of just pray over that. You know, that nobody else is gonna see that abuse and, or have to hear that abuse. But when they look back at my two sisters, they're I call it stuck. They're stuck in 1976 and they can't get out of it. Speaker 5 01:12:01 It got to a point where my, my one sister became a statistic. She was in an abusive relationship, but she refused any of us, my brother and I to come in and help her. And uh, he actually trafficked her into Winnipeg, Canada. And she was for about 10 months, she was a missing indigenous woman that we were searching for. You know, she could have died. And that wasn't, that, you know, that was only a couple years ago. So when you talk about like this abuse, this verbal abuse, you know, she's 58, my sister's 61 and it still is affecting their lives negatively. Speaker 4 01:12:53 I actually the abuser that, uh, when I did try to leave, um, didn't believe me and then proceeded to hold me hostage. Um, actually recently in the last, uh, three months at the beginning of January reached out to me, he still finds ways to interject himself into my life because unfortunately we do share a lot of mutual friends. Um, and all of them know about the situation because the blast radius of that situation was huge. That it just went across way too many groups of people. And it was just huge. So he still finds ways to be like, oh, so, and so is talking about you today. And it made me think about you and that's not necessarily, it's like, he's not verbally abusing me, but he's still letting me know that, oh, I still know what you're doing. I still know that this is going on in your life because of X, Y of, of this person, or he'll be like, oh, my mom brought you up the other day and how much she loves you and da I'm like, no, your mom's not love you. Speaker 4 01:13:59 Cause your mom doesn't love your, you know, like no, or he'll, you know, or he is like, oh, I'm so sorry about everything that happened and everything I did and da, da, but then I know just like little things like, so the father of my first children is the one that I cheated on with, he'll say his name wrong. And then my now husband he'll purposely say our last name wrong. And those are just little digs that he does to let me know that he still feels like he owns me in some capacity because he knows that that's gonna bother me. Speaker 4 01:14:43 And two, like, let's see, it was in 2007, when this all happened, it is 2022. And this I'm not, I can't even say he's a grown man. And he has children. He has, you know, he had his whole life racked up some domestic violence charges with that one too, but still always feels the need to interject himself into my life in one way or another. And it is insane. It is absolutely insane. And when it happens, it does trigger me and it makes me go a little bit manic. And then I can't sleep because it brings me back to not feeling safe because he's shocked me for a year and a half. I could not go anywhere without him or somebody else being there, reporting what I was doing to him. Speaker 4 01:15:38 And so it's just, just those little things just by, by sending a message on Facebook. It's not even like actual verbal words. It still messes with me. I do my best to not let it. And then, you know, when it does happen, I let my husband know. And I'm all like, Hey, you know, not even gonna give the dignity of saying his name, I'll be like, he reached out again and this is what he said. And then me and my husband will sit down and we'll talk about it. Like, how does it make you feel? He's like, what do, what do you need from me so that you don't, you know, end up going into a full blown, manic episode, you know? So it's just, yeah, it's been that it's been that long. And just those little things still mess with me. Speaker 6 01:16:25 Well, for me, that's like a, a verbal, I ejaculate. It's like, they eject this thing into your brain and they know it's like toxic, but it's like a boring worm that goes around and out. So half of the energy is them, but then we rented space. Speaker 4 01:16:45 Yeah. Speaker 6 01:16:46 We rented space and then we're playing it out and we're just continued. That's what I was talking about in my head, this negative, talking to myself all the time, cuz they're renting space with this ejaculate that they thought for negativity and I'm allowing it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so I had to a couple years ago, I mean, it took me this long to say, no, I'm not, not gonna shut up, sit down, whatever. Yeah. You know, whatever. And cuz I can't, I can't, what do happy people do? What do happy people do? Do they have thoughts of flowers? Oh my God. I would love to have thoughts of flowers. I need some flowers in my life and it's like, I've been, but that's on me. I was renting verse. They board the whole, it's like a, it's like a spell. And then we just take on the spell and believe in it and rent it space and feed it. Speaker 6 01:17:43 And how are you? Negative thoughts? Are you okay? How are you doing? And I'm like, no, you're no Uhuh, get outta here. I had to fire them all like, cuz I wanna think about flowers. Otherwise it's my fault too. Cuz I'm continuing this thought form and they know and they come and they attack and they do it on purpose. Cuz they're like, I know I'm gonna get you. I'm just gonna say this one word could be just one word, like a word purple. And then they know you're gonna spin off, you know? And we do it and we allow it and we gotta stop that. Yeah. Yep. So that's my 2 cents. Speaker 4 01:18:23 Mm-hmm <affirmative> it is crazy. How, just like you said that one word, just, just one. It doesn't have to be a sentence and, and sometimes it, like you said, it could be the color purple. Yeah. They could say purple to you and it will just spiral you down into this. Just you'll go over every conversation you two ever had. You'll go over every conversation you've ever had for the last five years. And then wonder if you did something wrong and because they said that thing, oh they're right. I am this awful. I'm purple. I am purple. It's evil. That is it's Speaker 6 01:18:53 Evil. It's evil, it's evil. It's poison. And it's evil. And like you said earlier, why would people do this? You know, cuz that's not who and how we are. So like we don't even know like what, why would you do that? So it's like, we can't even see it cuz we're blind to it. Cuz that's not the language that we speak. That's not who we are. So it's just kinda like, like they're speaking French, no, you know, no comprehend, but that's not French as Spanish, you know? It's like right. I Speaker 4 01:19:27 Dunno. No, they'll tell you they're speaking French, but they're speaking to you in Spanish. Speaker 6 01:19:30 Yeah. Yeah. I don't even understand. We just, we don't understand why, how they do that. So it's kind of like, I feel like we Gaslight ourselves almost, cuz we can't understand that they're doing it and they're doing it and they get away with it and it's, you know, and the more they get away with it, the bigger and bigger and the more they get away, the bigger and they just keep, keep on going, taken and taken, you know, and giving this poison. Ugh. So toxic. So anyways, sorry. Speaker 1 01:20:08 So then it is our job to self talk. Mm-hmm <affirmative> the positive talk, which is hard when you're used to thinking negative thoughts. Mm-hmm <affirmative> Speaker 6 01:20:19 Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah, that was new for me. I like, oh my God. I wonder if people do that, is that a thing? People have positive thoughts. Speaker 4 01:20:27 Well, and they got Speaker 6 01:20:28 To be. Speaker 4 01:20:29 Yeah. Well and in recent years, I mean, I, you know, I there's been, you know, the, up the raising of voices of the, my minorities and things like that. And in the midst, in the height of the most angry part of it, I had people asking me to tell me that I needed to pick a side I needed because I'm not white enough and I'm not black enough. I'm not white enough for the white people. And I'm not black enough for black people. But because I was raised by white people, I automatically default to white, to African American people and not, not everybody, but in some of the experiences that I've had, they're like, oh, you're straight up Oreo. And that means black on the outside, white on the inside. Um, and I've internalized that because then in certain situations, I don't know what to say and people will be like, oh, do you say the N-word? Speaker 4 01:21:30 And I'm all like, no, because it's just not a proper thing to do in any situation. Like <laugh> what, or people will ask me certain things about my hair or um, they'll be surprised. You know, even with my husband, people are surprised that he, you know, my husband's like a hundred percent Swedish and then, you know, he used to shave his head. So people would be like, oh, you skin head and da, da, da, da. And then people would find out that he was married to me. And even I saw it, he had black coworkers treat him differently and address him differently. Once they found out he was married to a biracial woman, I have had black men be upset with me because I'm married to a white man. And then I have had, you know, African American women say extremely hurtful things to me or people say, oh, your mom had jungle fever. What the hell does that mean? I mean, I know what it means, but like what the hell? Like why, why do you think it's okay to say those words to people just because you don't understand a situation and those are other verbal abuses that like, like I said, the one kid in kindergarten said that one thing still have no clue what his name is. Don't even remember what he looked like. I remember all of those, every single one of em, Speaker 4 01:22:43 You just, I mean, you really have to be careful about the words you say to people and how you say them. Speaker 1 01:22:50 I think a lot of people don't even think about what they're saying, what comes out of the mouth. They just say a lot of shit. Mm-hmm <affirmative> without thinking for sure. Speaker 4 01:22:58 Oh yeah. Speaker 1 01:23:00 Oh yeah. And they don't think about the repercussions, like what they're saying. Speaker 4 01:23:05 Mm-hmm <affirmative> Speaker 1 01:23:06 Unfortunately. Speaker 4 01:23:09 Oh, Speaker 1 01:23:10 So yeah. I appreciate all of you telling your stories and being vulnerable and sharing yourself. It's a big deal, you know? And I just hope that, you know, the people that watch this, they, they can hear your words and, and get some strength from it and you know, it can help them. Speaker 4 01:23:46 I highly suggest everybody use the term in no part of our relationship. Is it okay for you to speak to me that way? Whether you're a romantic partner with your coworkers, your bosses, anybody, because that will stop somebody dead in their tracks and make them either step back and go, oh, I was being disrespectful or you were sure as health, either true colors. Speaker 1 01:24:11 Mm-hmm Speaker 4 01:24:11 <affirmative> and how they respond to that. Speaker 1 01:24:14 The boundary put up that boundary Speaker 4 01:24:18 Mm-hmm <affirmative> Speaker 1 01:24:19 Yeah. Thank you everyone for showing up today and for telling your story, I appreciate you. Um, so, um, we gonna wrap it up unless anybody like anybody have any last words? Speaker 6 01:24:39 Well, I loved hearing everybody's beautiful story. So it's always good to, that's why we're here on this planet is to connect and share. We're here to learn. That's why we're here on this planet and we've undertaken a, a bit of harm, but we've learned from it, it, you know, we could have been hurt and harmed and harmed others, you know? And so like Christa, she's being a, a, a healer verbal healer, and that's our role is to stop that from rolling down the hill towards anybody else. So we need to call it out when we see it happening, we say it right. You know, that's what Chris is saying. Like put up that boundary, which is hard for us. So it's really hard work, but you know, we gotta strengthen that muscle, strengthen that muscle little by little, you know, and just stop that from rolling down the hill. Anyway, it was such a blessing to hear everybody's story. So thank you so much. Thank you for including me. I appreciate it. Speaker 4 01:25:43 Thank you for, thank you for having me and us. It was great. And it's great to have different people's perspective because it's not always the full on like full on abuse situation that people think about when you, when you say anything connected with abuse, it's it's sometimes not that big. Yeah. And it doesn't even have to come for your romantic partner. It could be friend. It could be a coworker. You know, it could be your boss. It could be your employer in general, but that's a whole other topic. <laugh> but just, just know that abuse takes many, many forms. And if you see one of your friends and they're just slightly off or something seems up ask 'em and sometimes they're not gonna say, but just knowing that somebody's interested might help them be able to heal or move on from that situation. So, so thank you for having us again. It's always a good time. Thank you. Speaker 3 01:26:49 It was nice meeting you guys and thank you for sharing and being open. Speaker 4 01:26:54 Letting me ask you questions. <laugh> that's okay. Cuz I'm gonna ask you guys, if you guys wanna be on one of our shows, we're gonna call it what kind of sugar we ran into a dilemma of what is it called? When a sugar baby is younger or older than the sugar daddy. There's nothing. There is nothing. What is obviously because we do crime and like controversial topics on my podcast. We would probably find some other things to put in there, but like, I feel like that's an another dating interesting topic that can lead to some criminal things happening. But, but yeah, I love podcast. It's fun. Yeah.