Datable Rebels - How Do You Know If You're Dating A Serial Killer

Speaker 0 00:00:13 Hi, this is fair rebels. We doing episodes today about how do you know you're doing a serial killer? So I have here the girl of the crime. Do you see cocktail hour, um, researcher, Krista wordsmith, Becca and anthropologist. Kerrianne the first season of creme juicy cocktail hour can be found on. I feel like I'm doing a commercial Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher Buzzsprout and for new episodes dropping every Friday. Welcome ladies. Thank you for having us on. So this episode I put, I put a post on Facebook today. Uh, this woman, she had a post and then I commented and then we had some back and forth and I posted her comment on my Facebook and it was about, um, men and dating apps and dating men in general and just how we have to be super fucking careful because we could get killed. And there was, um, there were a lot of questions and comments and, um, one was that stuck out in my head was the, uh, it seems like from what I've heard and what I've watched, that the, the like typical, you know, type of person or whatever, man, it's a, it's a white male who kills women or men. Speaker 0 00:02:02 Haven't you done a neighbor's search on, on the numbers for that, or like, Speaker 1 00:02:06 I've done it. I did it. I did a final, uh, called the gender factor of serial killing that gives you the numbers and all that. And, uh, some of the specific, specific numbers that you need to know about when men start killing the ages, uh, when they specifically targeted certain gender or factor of women, I can't even talk today. Uh that's okay. It was more of a GIS study, which is a geographical information systems where you put layers and then you can take layers off. So you can see like some of the swabs where the killers went across 70, you know, back in the day. That was really interesting to see. Um, yeah, we've, we've done. Uh, I've done a lot of studies on all kinds of that stuff. Speaker 0 00:03:00 It's just been intense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like, I mean, obviously the, in like normal world of dating, the worst thing is like to be ghosted or to deal with like a narc or sociopath or be raped, which is fucking terrible. It's all terrible. Speaker 2 00:03:26 Get ghosted by a serial killer. Right. I think that you have a breath of fresh air. Like I dodged that bullet. Like if you get ghosted by someone and then you see them in the news, like having killed like several people, like, Oh, it was like really pissed off at the time, but now I feel good being ghosted. Or like you find out that they're talking to like your best friend and like four other people, or, you know, or in kind of normal, which seems to be something that I've noticed that has become normal. Like they start dating like your dad or your mom or your uncle, or, you know, weird things like that. But people are like, that's weird. But then you're like, Oh, I'm dating a serial killer. That's true. Weird. That's excellent. Speaker 2 00:04:20 Backing up. What about that couple that you were talking about? Oh, the cannibal couple, the box that we talked about in our cannibals episode. Yeah. They, um, killed, well, they admitted to killing like an eating 30 people, mostly women. And then you have whom they met on dating apps. And, um, the one that they got convicted for Elena, um, they had her over and I guess like she was flirting with the husband and the wife was like, you got to kill her. So he did. And then like they found they had to take like the whole, um, refrigerator down to the police station. Cause they were like pickled body parts that were cold cuts. It was like a thing. It's a whole thing. Where were they located? Speaker 2 00:05:07 I guess it was, it's an incredible episode. I cannot, the name escapes me, but yeah. And they were discovered because the husband dropped his cell phone and a road crew picked it up and they were like, looks, let's check out these photos. Cause the phone was unlocked and there was like a picture of him with like a head and yeah. You know, that's the kind of shit you put on your Tinder profile, but it was in his phone. So, you know, always lock your phone the first, the first sign of a post it's a through like a stroll through the pictures to show you something and you see like a picture of the Sanford had, they're like, Oh, don't mind that my friend it's a meme. It's a meme. Yeah. Okay. Speaker 0 00:06:08 Um, so since you guys have been, you guys have been, you ladies have been researching this a lot. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. Have you noticed some like typical traits, um, that, that someone might be a serial killer? Speaker 2 00:06:29 Yeah. Well, one of the cases Speaker 3 00:06:30 I studied really closely because I worked on a book, um, that had this killer involved, Stephen Stanko of Myrtle beach. Um, a lot of my research covered two of the girlfriends. He had, um, his long-term relationships, one of which he attempted to murder her and the other one, he did murder her and then raped and murdered attempted to murder her daughter. Um, her daughter survived got away called the police, but um, Speaker 2 00:06:55 Yeah, so his relationships both Speaker 3 00:06:57 The first one and the second one that, um, I delved into are very much characterized by like excessive lying and excessive excuse making like, um, I guess for example, um, if you get fired from a job, he wouldn't tell his partner and said, he'd get dressed for work, be gone all day and then come back from work and have like stories to tell, you know, and they wouldn't find out until much, much later that he'd been fired this whole time and who the fuck knows what he was doing all day. Um, another side was just whenever she like, uh, like he would steal stuff from like his first girlfriend that we studied, that he, um, attempted to murder her Elizabeth. Um, he would steal items from her house and pawn them. He would steal checks from her check book, but he was also very insecure that she was making more money than him. Speaker 3 00:07:50 So there was this kind of weird, you know, he'd say he owned things that he didn't. He said he was like a professional golfer, you know, he just makes shit up. And if he was like confronted about it, or if she like called him on it, he'd get like angry, violent, like, you know, there was always an excuse. There was never an apology. There was never an admission of guilt when he got backed into the corner, he'd get violent. So there's this whole lack of ability to there there's this weird kind of tangent reality that they live in. And when they get confronted with anything that contradicts that it's like, excuse, excuse, excuse explosion. Speaker 0 00:08:36 You say that'd be like sociopath tendency. Like, is that in the realm of COSIA Speaker 2 00:08:44 He was dying Speaker 3 00:08:45 Is a psychopath. Um, at first by his brain scans and by like assessments, um, I think there's an, there's some narcissistic elements that to you. Um, but yeah, the whole, like living a double life, always having an excuse for things like never able to apologize, like have, has an excuse ready kind of thing. Um, yeah. Those sorts of situations gets fired often for dishonesty and that, yeah. Yeah. So it's like, if they can't hold down a job, but it's never their fault that they can't hold down a job or like they can't keep relationships or friendships, but it's never their fault, like habitual bridge burning, that sort of thing where it's like, if anything in reality confronts their fantasy, they just cut it off. Speaker 4 00:09:38 But then there's people like BTK who held jobs for very, very long time had like a functioning family, but she would sometimes find pictures of him in precarious positions or find him also in precarious positions, but more so of like, you have a fetish, you're not talking to it about me or with me because I'm your wife. And like, there's that weird line of just like how some men say they're going to sleep with a prostitute because there's things that they can do with a prostitute that they can't do with their wife. Speaker 3 00:10:14 That's still like that alter ego that w that they're leading very comfortably. Like, I think the big thing is just like the comfort Speaker 2 00:10:24 With leading a double life. Speaker 3 00:10:27 Right? Yeah. And like the ability to manage the stress of that you're really well. Speaker 4 00:10:32 Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's also, that's hard to do. It's exhausting. Speaker 2 00:10:41 That's like our full-time job. Like our part-time, whatever, it's a job, it's a job, it's a job killing his work, killing a lion or work it's exhausting, Speaker 4 00:10:53 You know, it's just like, why would you do that when it's just so much easier to tell the truth? I mean, not that you're going to tell the truth, that you're like a serial killer or something like that, but like, it's less exhausting. So like Speaker 2 00:11:04 With the cannibal couple, he found, so they found other cannibal Tinder or something, or probably in the circuit perfectly cannibal, wait, hold up caramel circuits more than likely there's, there's a circuit for everything. Right. Speaker 4 00:11:27 That movie hostel is not a lie. It is not a lie. Speaker 2 00:11:32 I don't see what you mean. Speaker 4 00:11:36 Yeah. It's, it's, it's not a lie. Those things happen. It's cheaper to take people that are on vacation than it is to transport them. Speaker 2 00:11:52 I've got a lock my door, Speaker 3 00:11:54 So my, we don't get interrupted here. Yeah. And then, uh, Carrie, would it, what red flags have you seen? Speaker 1 00:12:04 Um, so I'd like to bring up Liz Kendall with Ted Bundy's that Ted Bundy's girlfriend. Okay. Um, one time they, uh, went out and they were, uh, in a boat, like a little rubber raft boat and they got out of the boat and they're swimming around and, you know, playing around and he tried to like play dunker, you know, when you're going to dunk somebody in the water and just have fun and it's okay. Well, he kind of mean, and almost like made her feel like she was going to drowned. Um, little things like that. Like something that, Oh, I didn't mean it that mean, but she was like, dude, it scared her to death. Like he was going to drown her when he did it and then acted like nothing. Um, I like to use that one as an example, because it seems like that would be a minute thing, but it really, isn't a good indicator of what they're capable of doing. If they're able to do that in front of you, what can they do behind your back kind of thing. Um, Speaker 3 00:13:10 And then minimize it afterwards. Always Speaker 1 00:13:13 Minimize the effort because you were overreacting gaslighting. Speaker 3 00:13:20 Yep. And that's exactly what happened with, um, Cinco and Liz. Like he held a, um, washcloth filled with four Oh nine and a Clorox over her face. And then he tied her to a toilet, took a shower and then afterwards was like, Oh, you know, she was like freaking out. And I was like trying to pack. So I had to like, you know, chemical or entire did the toilet, no big deal. You know, took a shower, was singing in the shower, like a normal person. And then Keith Jesperson, his daughters mentioned some stuff like that in her, um, interviews and podcasts, how her dad would like play, wrestle her, but like, to a really like scary extent. And then, you know, it'd be like, Oh, I was just playing with you. And she's like, I'm in pain and like traumatized, you know? Speaker 1 00:14:14 Wow. Yes. Watch out the children watch out that for that, with the friends, not stuff. But you got to look at the whole school, Speaker 3 00:14:25 Like causing physical harm to a person or an animal or an animal object. Yeah. Like balls kicking dogs. The dogs are inanimate objects, but yeah. So then they just kind of walk away, like nothing happened. Don't acknowledge it. Whatever. You're crazy. No accountability. Gaslighting. Who the Speaker 0 00:14:52 Fuck? Who is this person that tied someone up to a toilet and four nine though? Is this the care of a couple? No, no, Speaker 2 00:14:58 No, no, no. This isn't that they're like, I would hear it either. There's bleach in it. Shit. Speaker 1 00:15:06 Even snake, a Stevenson serial killer from South Carolina. Speaker 0 00:15:10 Okay. Is this Reese? I don't, I haven't heard of him. Speaker 2 00:15:13 This was, um, about what, what, 15 years ago or something like that. Now it's a while ago. He's been he's on death row currently. Speaker 0 00:15:22 Has anyone in research? Charles Manson. Charles. So do you all think Speaker 2 00:15:28 Charles Manson is this year? Like, would you can, um, like, would you consider him a serial killer and that he weaponized people or that you like w what do y'all think of that? Speaker 0 00:15:40 That's a good question. Actually Speaker 1 00:15:42 FBI's definition is two or more that you've killed and he didn't kill them. No, of, yeah. He didn't physically weaponized people, but I mean, theoretically, he's not a serial killer. Speaker 0 00:15:59 He's manipulative. Fuck. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:16:02 And I think a big thing that I've mentioned it, you know, before this episode, but it's like, even if these people aren't in serial killers, they will still fuck up your life. If you're noticing someone you're dating, debug, these things like lied about everything and then like doing abusive shit and then minimizing it being like dishonest. Like, even if they're not killing lots of people, it'll still suck. Speaker 0 00:16:28 And then you gotta be alive to fucking go to therapy and deal with that shit. Exactly. Speaker 2 00:16:34 We'll live through it. And then you ended up with like survivors guilt, and then you, then you deal with your own journey of PTSD more than likely don't I have, I've never dealt. I mean, I've met some crazy people in my life and then dealt with some crazy manipulative people, but I don't know how it would be to deal with knowing that you've slept in the same bed with somebody that like just calmly came home after doing something like that. And like sit down and ate dinner with you and then like, Speaker 0 00:17:18 Okay, very close to that. Some fucking weirdos. Speaker 2 00:17:27 Okay. Speaker 1 00:17:28 I'm so sorry. There's so many of them out there that way, the Hosers Speaker 0 00:17:33 Many piles of them out, Speaker 2 00:17:40 But you don't have to be a serial killer to be a psychopath. There's other ways to be psychopaths, you know, there's like, what? Yeah. Like what do you Speaker 0 00:17:50 Mean? Speaker 2 00:17:51 So there's like, okay. So like the no accountability part like that, I would say that, you know, falls in line with a lot of situations that you deal with deal with with a lot of like sociopathic people, narcissists, they don't hold any responsibility for anything they do because they don't care. And if you're dating them, that means it's all your fault. No matter what it is that they do. Exactly. And that's, that's, that's a sign of being a psychopath. Now, maybe they haven't quite crossed the line of like killing people because not everybody fantasizes about that. That's but it is, you know, a trait, but you know, you deal with it. But even like your boss, or even sometimes your friends, you know, it, it is a natural, maybe not natural, natural, unnatural. However you look at it, chemistry of the brain and some people are that way. Right. Speaker 0 00:18:44 That's true. I did actually get a sociopath. Like he told me he was a sociopath wow. Sociopath. And I was like, Oh Speaker 2 00:19:00 No. But sometimes that means good times of bad people. Good times or bad. Speaker 0 00:19:13 So in all of your studies, has there been like a certain type of woman, um, that fall for serial killers? Like, Speaker 2 00:19:26 You know, I think, uh, from what I've seen in this is like, by no means a, a general statement, but from what I've seen, it's been a lot of like overworked, single moms who were like exhausted and vulnerable. And, um, you know, I don't think it's because they're like weaker people. I think it's just because like, you know, they're vulnerable and I I've, I've, I've seen that as like a, a pattern people pleasers or the word what's the name for the people that Speaker 0 00:20:03 High plus to feel. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:20:05 Well, that's when they know that they're like a criminal or a serial killer and not just like, I think, I think there's a different, so like there's, you're correct. Yeah. There's people that date serial killers, because they don't know they're serial killers. Um, the, just like a charming individual, that's like really freaking good at manipulating people and presenting as something other than they are. And, um, I think it's like vulnerable, tired, like individuals that are in like, I mean, it's, from what I've seen, it's been like people that are just like abusers, they know who took him. Right. And they know like it's yeah. It's their Mo. Speaker 3 00:20:48 And then, uh, how do you pronounce it? His was with Delia. Hi barista. Phelia had breast Ophelia. That's when, like the person specifically like, is attracted to someone because of the crimes they've committed. Speaker 2 00:21:03 Okay. Right. And that's what you were discovering that like Carol Boone with Ted Bundy really doesn't fit that description because she was actually stalking him before he got arrested. He's all like was weird. <inaudible> Carol Boone was a case in herself. Okay. I mean, fuck by the fuck by the Coke machine, you know? And I thought Speaker 3 00:21:39 I've watched the, I watched the documentary and the movie. Speaker 4 00:21:45 Yeah. I bet. I bet. If he would have like, started dating her, she would have been okay with what he was doing. Speaker 2 00:21:55 Cannibal couple. Yes. Speaker 4 00:21:59 When like the Bonnie and Clyde of macrophilia. I bet. I bet that could have happened. I bet she would have been his like place, like, okay. It's okay. Like I can come home and like be okay. You'd be okay with it. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:22:19 He would have, you know, if he really got it, he was probably, if it was a really comfortable situation, he'd be able to put a head up on the bookcase. That's how comfortable it would have to be. Cause she wouldn't, she would shoot the makeup on it for us Speaker 4 00:22:36 Ready every day. Speaker 2 00:22:38 <inaudible> Christmas tree tatted, buried caribou. And we're fucked up. He got arrested. We should write that movie. Speaker 3 00:22:59 Don't talk about it anymore. Right. That shit. Oh my God. Speaker 2 00:23:04 Fanfic Speaker 3 00:23:12 It was on the dating, like the dating game a long time ago. Who was this hero? Speaker 2 00:23:17 Killer. Oh, what was his name? He was cured. He was super attractive. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:23:26 And there were several women that like contacted him at jail that wanted it. And the one woman actually married him. Well, I think it's interesting because I wonder how many of those people would date someone that they knew was like a serial killer. If they weren't in prison, like he's not going to see a real Kilby or like, I don't know if he's not going to do shit in prison, but like, yeah. I just get to have my like relationship. Speaker 4 00:24:00 Did Mary Manson actually really distant, married him to get the rights to his body so that she could like tore his body around when he died. So she married him and then she showed up at prison with her 19 year old, her other, you know, counterpart her lover, we'll say and pitched this idea to him after they got married. Speaker 3 00:24:22 Charles Manson die. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 4 00:24:26 I'm not sure if she's curtain his body around, but that was the plan. Speaker 3 00:24:31 Well, that sounds like fun. I mean, for money, we'll do a Manson. Come on Charlie. And that was another one of the things, um, you know, that came up is that it is like dating a celebrity because in a lot of ways, these like people become celebrities in the eyes pop culture. So it's like probably the easiest way to date a celebrity. Right. I mean, and I'm, I'm thinking that's what's happening. If you can get past, like, it's hard sending mail to prison, they're like, Oh, you put a stamp on it. We can't accept it. Oh, there was like a coffee smudge. It might be LSD. We can't bring that through. Or like, it's so fucking hard to send me to prison. You can't like put your coffee cup down on it. Speaker 4 00:25:21 Yeah. I'll make photocopies of things. And then like, if you send pictures, they look at all of those pictures and then they also do decide what you get and what you don't get, because they don't want certain pictures to necessarily provoke other prisoners that might be getting out before you. Speaker 3 00:25:42 So Speaker 4 00:25:43 Then it's like, so like you're Oh my husband's in prison. I'm going to take these sexy pictures. Yeah. No, the guard is going to keep them, sorry. Yeah. So just don't don't send nudies. They learned the hard way from that one. So, Speaker 3 00:25:57 Oh gosh. Speaker 4 00:26:01 But anyways. Yeah, no, I don't, I don't know. It's just, and it's like all the women who showed up at the Richard Ramirez cases, like they got it fixed. He, you know, brushed his hair. Didn't smell like a dirty Floyd inside of a butthole. How did Speaker 3 00:26:19 He get that prison? Denzel? Yeah. Speaker 4 00:26:22 He got his like gonna go sharp little thingy thing. Speaker 3 00:26:26 Wait, wait, what, what he had, like he Speaker 4 00:26:28 Had his teeth were like destroyed and like full of gingivitis and rotting and like sharp and pointy. And just like, Speaker 3 00:26:38 It was part of the way that people <inaudible>. No, but everybody said he smelled horrendous and that was part of, it was his, his mouth. So while he was in prison, waiting for trial, they fixed his teeth and you know, made him take a shower. And all of a sudden his hair is brushed and Farrah Fawcett it out and he smiles and these women fucking mouth, Oh my God. His parents, right? No, he's the, he was the night stalker. Oh shit. I don't know anything about that stuff. Yes, yes, yes, yes. He was. He was interesting. Cause he didn't really have a pattern. He'd just break into houses and like sometimes he'd rape and kill people. Sometimes he would just like rape or kill them. Like he was kidnapping kids. It's like the lasting them. And then letting them go, like he just was dealing all of it in no particular order. Speaker 3 00:27:36 But lots of it, he's one of those people where you're like, how the fuck do you have the energy to do all this? That sounds like, yep. And he had been pulled over and talked to cops multiple times in between his killing sprees. And then like if he didn't get to like kill somebody sometimes if that's the mood he was in, he would kill multiple people at night. Yeah. He had a history person and he had girlfriends on the street or girl friends, like he fucking sleep. Like when does he sleep? Does he take like one nap a week? Like, I don't know. That's probably what gives them energy. Yeah. And he'd like eat snacks in people's houses after he murdered them and then leave like jelly jelly. So it was okay. Like a path. Um, my friend doc called him prison Dobbs. He had prison doves blocking do I'm like fighting over him. Like, and again, see you it's like, what would they have done that if they knew that he was a serial killer, but he hadn't, but they did them on the outside. Like, I don't know. I think some of them would have, but not, not many of them. I think some of them are like super like smooth. You have to never Speaker 1 00:29:02 Let me meet Keith Jesperson. Speaker 3 00:29:07 Yeah. We got to give some background on who doc is and how he got us into true crime. Speaker 1 00:29:15 So Dr. Al Carlisle was a, um, psychologist, uh, who worked with serial killers. Uh, he began the process of doing that in 1976 when he had to do an assessment on Ted Bundy. And after that, he started working with others, you know, all over the country, uh, started working with Ron Holmes is also a very, uh, prominent criminologist in Kentucky. Um, he worked with the CIA and the FBI. He worked with ritualistic killings. He worked with, um, multiple personalities. He could, he could get you, if you had multiple personalities, you could combine them. Doc was incredible. Um, he could get anybody to talk to him about it, about stuff, things that they wouldn't talk to anybody about. So, Speaker 2 00:30:04 And he's the one that didn't attend column one sort of a payphone when he escaped from prison. Speaker 1 00:30:10 Yeah. Yeah. With that, that phone call got leaked out onto the internet and I have to take it down all the time and there's like 20 copies up again. I don't know what I'm going to fricking do fuckers. Uh, yeah, so he escaped from the jail, um, in Colorado and Aspen, he goes, finds a cabin, stays for a week, gets out calls doc after he gets captured, he's like talking to him like it was a boy scout camping trip. It was really ridiculous. He, they just, they don't have the same concept of what people, what you just did. You escape, you broke cabbage. You know, Speaker 2 00:30:58 Just say as he needs, if he was still alive, he needed to release a diet book because that man lost like almost 40 pounds in like 10 days to climb to revenge, to escape, he needed that. I'm aware how that was 10 days Speaker 1 00:31:23 Out of a window. The first time he just jumped out of a window, it was the second gal they put him in. That was supposed to be more secure. That he way that he lost all the weight for it. He escaped from Colorado wise. And then the second here I am right here in Colorado, the second he gets down to Florida, he gets a log and starts, you know, Lincoln log-in girls. I mean, I'm so embarrassed that that happened. I still, everybody, Speaker 2 00:31:50 I can't believe he liked killed half of a sorority house with a log slide. Well, first documented of his kind, because they've been around forever, but first document wait, he killed. Yes. The whole sorority already with a log. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:32:15 Next night he came back with and use the log again on another home. Speaker 2 00:32:19 He's like, this is great. I love the slag one house girls. And I think like our 12 girls and like three of them, three, four of them died. And the rest of them were like severely injured, like yeah. And traumatized for the rest of their lives of men. And like probably swore enough. There's like no lumberjacks, no lumberjacks ever, no construction workers. None of it. Some men there are new landscapers, like gardeners, maybe a trigger warning Speaker 4 00:32:55 All the while. Well, but otherwise I will, Ted was doing this. He did keep relationships with people that did not know this. He did have multiple girlfriends at some, at some sometimes while he was not in prison, Speaker 2 00:33:09 He was super charismatic. Yeah. And a lot of his girlfriends believe that he was innocent. Like the whole Carol Boone believed he was innocent until the end right there. She says she did. Speaker 1 00:33:22 She did. Um, you know, and there's, there's some things that people don't really understand about Ted when he was like in high school, junior high. I think a lot of the reasons why he kinda got us curious charisma or whatever, kind of pushed out or whatever happened, he had really bad acne guys. He couldn't get a date. Speaker 2 00:33:42 Did you have a serial killer kill people? Speaker 1 00:33:46 I think, I think that was part of it was because he couldn't get a date and he would go sneak around. And he, he was, he's a peep in top. He started out farming and he wanted to make sure that he could be invisible. So that was like his little play thing he was playing and it just got out of hand. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:34:08 Yeah. But he was pretending he was off to begin with. Cause he didn't have to be obviously Speaker 4 00:34:16 No because people talk about them and like, they always say he was that person that was like good with everybody, but not good at anything. Oh, interesting. Speaker 1 00:34:25 He was smart. He was smart. Speaker 4 00:34:27 But like he wasn't good at sports. He wasn't good at group activities. He wasn't, but he was, he was nice. He was caring. He gave off that appearance of being assimilated. Speaker 2 00:34:40 You use like the person that everyone liked, but nobody knew. Speaker 1 00:34:44 Yeah. It's like they would go skiing. He would go skiing. But he wouldn't go to the party that night. Speaker 2 00:34:51 Right. So he kept like a buffer between himself and the other. Speaker 4 00:34:54 Yup. At all times, Speaker 2 00:34:58 I guess that's another red flag. It is a red flag. Yeah. No close friendships and like very few lasting friendships. Speaker 4 00:35:07 If everybody has a different opinion on you. Speaker 2 00:35:10 Yeah. So then like what do we tell these women, Speaker 4 00:35:16 Myself included, I guess that go on there Speaker 2 00:35:19 Date. I hate them dating apps. Like what are the red flags we should look out for? Well, we're going to tell all y'all out there. Don't fuck with Eric. Cause then you'll have to deal with us. So, and just don't do it. I have a superpower that nobody Speaker 0 00:35:38 Knows of and I'll, I'll, I'll bring it. Speaker 4 00:35:40 Yeah. Well, I mean there's, I mean, there's the obvious don't go home with them. Speaker 0 00:35:47 Don't drink, don't go fucking out on a date and drink with them and get like, and go to their house. You who is that person? Okay. So I watch a couple of different shows like on Hulu or whatever about dating. And there was one about this guy in Seattle who had Dave, this woman for like two months and she thought she knew him. And I think he finally came to her area and they went out and they had drinks and she was, you know, like they were intoxicated and he invited her back to his hotel room and then it killed her and cut up in tiny pieces. This was a couple of years ago, five, five plus maybe years ago. So I mean like they had been dating. She thought she was that Speaker 3 00:36:38 Be careful. Yeah. I guess tell a friend. Speaker 4 00:36:41 Yes. I always tell a friend, um, don't let them pick you up, meet them where you're going go home. Um, or let them get drunker than you. Yes. Let them get dropped off. Be roofie them. Well, I mean, I think there's laws, right? Speaker 0 00:37:04 I'm kidding. I'm totally. Speaker 4 00:37:08 Um, if it becomes like a regular dating thing, like as much as some people are like, Oh my friends cannot meet who I'm dating because they will ruin it. If they like avoid it for like ever like say you're meeting them like for a year and you haven't met a friend, a family member, even in passing, like coming to and from or whatever, like maybe push that issue. Like, Hey, can I meet your friends? Like, Oh, you know, you've met my friends. Like why don't we all get together and see if we can, like, I'll maybe play cards against humanity or something. You know, Speaker 3 00:37:45 I think another big red flag is if you just catch him in a blatant lie, like if they say they own the house that they're living in and then you find out they're renting, that's something. I mean, it's not necessarily something that serial killers do, but at something that like psychopaths and narcissists do, it's like, if they're lying about what they own, what they do for, if they say that they do something for work, but then you find out they do something else or they're unemployed or whatever. Um, you know, not that either of those things are bad, but it's like, if they're not upfront with you about the day-to-day realities of their life, like telling lies that they can get easily caught in. That's like a big red flag because it shows like an extreme comfort with living a double life on like a very surface level. It shows that they don't let people in deeper than the surface level Catching him in lies. You know, it's um, CA catching people in lies is a big red flag. Speaker 0 00:38:46 Yeah. And I would say like, maybe not having, not showing interest or having empathy obviously. Speaker 3 00:38:59 Yeah. Look out for lack of empathy Speaker 0 00:39:02 Or accountability. Gaslighting. Speaker 3 00:39:04 Yeah. Yeah. Like, Oh, well the thing is like, if someone's like trying to tell you how you're feeling or telling you you're crazy or like telling you you're misremembering things like, I don't know, and I'm not gonna name any names, but I was in a relationship once where I had to keep screenshots of conversations. We had to fact check, wow. You know, stayed in that one for way too long. But it was like to the point where I was having to document conversations to make sure that I wasn't crazy. It didn't have to get to that point that I let it, but y'all don't have to no, you don't. Speaker 4 00:39:40 Um, I would say another thing is, is like, when you see them blatantly do something like you call it, like say they just started to pour a cup of water on the floor, right in front of you. Speaker 3 00:39:54 It's just like, like they're either a cat or they're a psychopath. Speaker 4 00:40:02 And you're like, why did you do that? And they're like, what are you talking about? I didn't do anything. Or if, um, If they make it, like you lie about, or if they like make you lie and steal to make sure that they have what they need, Speaker 0 00:40:23 Like pressure you to do something that you don't want to do, sort of thing, Speaker 3 00:40:27 Present them. Like if you're feeling pressured to misrepresent them and like, you know, I mean, there's something about dishonest people where it's like, if you get too close to them, they make a liar out of you because you have to keep secrets for them. Speaker 4 00:40:43 Yeah. You have to it's like, and then, because they did, it's like their form of control. And then it's also, you have to protect yourself because you're like, Oh my God, everybody's going to tell me that I would freaking eat. Speaker 3 00:40:55 Yes. And there's unlike psychological thing where it's like, you know, don't keep making a mistake because you've spent a long time making it already. And there's that thing where it's like, I've invested so much emotional labor. So much of my life so much time in many cases, so much money in this relationship, I've got to get some good out of it. That's what I'm guilty of. I feel like I've invested so much. I'm like, God damn it. This is going to work. You're going to no, not the, Speaker 0 00:41:29 Okay. The common law, the common law, common law, Speaker 2 00:41:34 Colorado. If people do not move to Colorado, dumbest law, I have ever heard of, because you'll be married in six months, I'm married. But if they're a psychopath, they will try to get alimony from you six months. Speaker 0 00:41:59 The thing I think I've heard in a long time, and there's like been some shit going on, you know that we've been here like fucking six months Speaker 2 00:42:08 Storming the Capitol, all this bullshit, common lines, six months. Fuck that takes the cake. That's just ridiculous. It's the Mormons. I blamed them, bake me a cake for my divorce meant it was all real. I had to go out and spend like a week on the mountain. I had to make her a cake with her to see it. It, it was, it was actually really awesome. We should totally do that again. Even without a divorce. That was what I was going to say. We have to figure out how to make one, to like celebrate that it's spring and birthdays. Oh, a different kind of booze. How about like a Blondie with like a blonde brownie with weed. There's that? But for the liquor we could do like, like a banana cream, vanilla orange, or we could do filming over serial killers there for you to date. Speaker 0 00:43:22 I don't date serial killers, Speaker 2 00:43:25 Purpose. I mean, Speaker 0 00:43:28 Narcissist and sociopath. Apparently Speaker 2 00:43:32 My said not serial killers, but not American men that I know of. I think every, every person, every person, man, or woman has a level of sociopath and narcissism in them. Definitely. Speaker 0 00:43:48 I've heard. Cause I've done a little research on the, the narcissist, um, that we all have. Like you don't like degrees of narcissism and you know, like there's a healthy level. And then there obviously is like the, the spectrum. Speaker 2 00:44:03 Yeah. We all have to have that. I got up today and I ended up yes, but there is a difference. There is a difference between being like that bitch and a fucking crazy bitch that bitch. And then there's that, that, Oh, Speaker 0 00:44:25 Fuck some shit up. And I don't even care. Like why are they even worried about what is Speaker 2 00:44:33 Someone else's fault? It's like, Oh, I crashed your car. Cause you let me drive. You fuck. Or like you should have known, you know, it's your fault. Yeah. Yeah. Or like, you know, I killed all those people. Cause you were busy tonight or like, no, no, no. The best one for just like normal dating of not like a serial killer is, well you, you were gone. And like, I got like drunk with my friends and it just like have it. And I had to fuck her. Like she came on to me. Like it wasn't my fault, you know? Jeez, Speaker 0 00:45:31 Wait, hold on. No, I have to go back to this category a couple. Speaker 2 00:45:42 It's funny, Speaker 0 00:45:44 But it's not funny, but it's fucking funny. Speaker 2 00:45:46 You got to kind of laugh. I know Russia has a cannibal problem. Russia. Do you think that is poverty? They've suffered famine war. Um, they've got a nihilistic attitude. Yeah. I mean kind of fucked up. Yeah. We like Russians. We do. But yeah, they have really good food. I really liked their food and their men are pretty cute. There's some cute ones. Speaker 0 00:46:23 But wait back. I did the research on the cannibal couple, right? Speaker 2 00:46:28 Yeah. We all did. I found that I was a little Speaker 0 00:46:31 Bit more about this. Speaker 2 00:46:33 Well, they have been, they'd been cannibalizing for quite a while because when they raided their permit, they found like an actual photo album decades, late eighties, nineties. So they got cut in 2017. So he's a, what are their names again? That's it Natalia. And uh, what was his name? Natalia. And what's his day? Spock. XIV. Yes. On the cannibals episode of kind of juicy cocktail hour. I apologize Speaker 0 00:47:06 You all to, whoever's watching this to check out the crime. Do you see cocktail hour? The cannibal couple, because I want to know what this is about. Speaker 2 00:47:16 Yeah. The is called cannibalism. Sorry, not sorry. Yeah. We go into a couple other situations in countries that also have a history of a lot of human Speaker 4 00:47:30 Eating and saying, well, you know, Speaker 2 00:47:32 Dude, this is someone that specifically had, uh, like, Oh, I like met this couple on a dating app and like, yeah. Three, some sounds cool. Oh no, I'm in a fridge. Speaker 4 00:47:45 But yeah, they had a photo album going back to like probably before, like I was born like late eighties, early nineties. I was, I was born in 88. So like back then and up into 2017, like where do they get their photos developed? Speaker 2 00:48:01 Give that to cause it's like Polaroids because they're not all coloreds because just because you imagine Diego like the guy <inaudible>. Speaker 4 00:48:18 Yeah, exactly. I want to know who their developer was. I mean, I know there's like the don't ask, don't say anything unless it's like horrific, but there was literally a head. So they were not classy about it. They had a head on like a silver platter with like oranges around it, but they Speaker 2 00:48:34 Cut the oranges or maybe they thought it was like a Hollywood. Speaker 4 00:48:40 It was like a tacky, classy about it. I mean, I feel like if I was going to eat human head and go to the trouble of getting a silver platter, it classic cut off Speaker 2 00:48:59 Weird underground Speaker 4 00:49:00 Magazine for this. So it could be like home and gardens cannibal stuff, but it was not classy. And photo album just sitting on the coffee table with their scalp, I think she wore his wigs Speaker 2 00:49:18 And they were drunk like the whole time. Could you imagine? They're like, Oh, we got to see you to this photo shoot. And then they just kind of gave up halfway and took pictures or done research again. Speaker 4 00:49:34 He's from Wisconsin and other one of her fellow was scans and psychos. Speaker 2 00:49:39 Yeah. Very interesting. I haven't done. I don't know what what's he like, he was Speaker 4 00:49:47 Okay. I have mommy issues. And he first he started digging up bodies and he had like bowls made out of skulls and he made furniture out of skin and things like that. And his whole house was just, just disaster except for his mom's room. He had that boarded up. It was completely pristine. Nice, beautiful. And then eventually he went to killing people and he started killing. He killed, he only actually really killed two people. He didn't kill two people. And he only got caught because there was two people that he knew and the townspeople knew him and they knew that he was, he was off. They knew that he wasn't smart. He had the IQ of like maybe a 12 year old. I think it was, he wasn't very, he, he had a lot of issues and his, his schizophrenia was his mom telling him that if he killed these people or gathered enough of these bodies, cause he would look at the obituaries and go dig up fresh bodies. Speaker 2 00:50:51 So Bates, motel shit. Speaker 4 00:50:55 Yeah. If he got these bodies, she would come back to life because it is everything Speaker 2 00:51:00 It's based on his Texas chainsaw massacre part of it. Yeah. Speaker 4 00:51:05 That's part of it. And there's, there's a couple other ones sprinkled in there. Who else? Speaker 2 00:51:12 I want to know? Speaker 4 00:51:14 I don't know it off the top of my head, but I know there's ed game. I know that there is also, there was actually somebody in, in a Texas town that did cook people and put it in the chili. That part, part of that is in there too. Um, and then, Oh, who was the other one? I forget who the other one was, but it wasn't just all a gain because he never chased people and he never wore skin masks. Speaker 2 00:51:43 Okay. Because I thought I was, I thought it was only family members. Speaker 4 00:51:48 He was by himself. Like he did have a brother, but his brother wasn't as attached to his mom as he was okay. So his brother had moved out. His brother was gone. It was like, no, that's just, I can't whatever's going on that house. I want nothing part of. So like again was not, he, he was a very, very special pace. He w he would never have actually went into the dating if he did not know, Speaker 2 00:52:14 Even talking to children. A lot of these would be like in cells instead of people on dating apps or like, and that's another thing. Um, what have you, what if you find yourself on one of these dating apps, huh? Geez. Speaker 4 00:52:36 In ISIS or, or not ISIS. Uh, what is that one that all the people from Minnesota keep getting in trouble for? Speaker 2 00:52:48 Where do you guys, what are you guys doing in Minnesota? Oh, wait, Speaker 4 00:52:56 Terrorist groups. And one of the in cell terrorist groups keep getting a bunch of people to like, be recruited the fact from, and it's a bunch of women and then they go over there and they find out, Oh, these men don't really love me. I'm just their sex life. Speaker 2 00:53:13 I was talking about an in cell. I'm talking about in cell, in cell and voluntary and celibate person. I've got a really bad attitude against, they call us Beckys and tens and shit like that. They basically like, I'm a nice guy. Why won't anyone have sex with me? And then they like kind of formed an internet culture on it. And they hate women and it's bad, but they've had it. They've had to shut down several forums. We've had several killings from where the people would just basically mow down people. They had that guy in Toronto got mowed down. All those people had that guy who was the director's son in LA shot. A bunch of people. He filmed that video right before he did. It was, it's a creepy video to its effect phenomenon. Because like, these people have come together in this community based on like, no one wants to fuck me. Speaker 2 00:54:13 And like, you know, I deserve sex from women and they're not giving it to me. But then if any of them like, get a girlfriend or get laid they're out of their shitty little club. So they lose their identity and other shitty friends. So it's kind of this like side perpetuated at gain. Might've been considered like an in cell type back in the day. He was not able to date. Nobody would have had sex with him. He wouldn't have been able to participate, but I don't know if he was pissed about it. Like the ones that are getting now, they're really getting mad. And he was more mad about his mom being dead. Yeah. Speaker 4 00:54:49 He didn't go to prison. He went to the psych ward. Yeah. It was still precedent. Speaker 2 00:54:57 We're going to give Speaker 4 00:54:58 You some medicine. Just my heart kind of goes out to him. Actually. He was a little sad. And just in the head, obviously, you know, somebodies brain works that way without like slight some weird. And then they'll be like, what the hell is wrong with you? But like, he wasn't necessarily being malicious. Speaker 2 00:55:20 His mom, no buddy. That's another thing that comes up with like women that are dating serial killers is like this assumption that they seem like this sad, scared child within them and want to nurture that sad, scared child and like see the innocence in them and like bring it out and fix it, fix it. Look. Cause it's so deeply ingrained in women where it's like, Oh, I can like fix this person. It's my obligation to fix this person. Even if it fucking destroys me. And I'm glad that that's, that kind of mythos is becoming undone. Yeah, me too. We got to keep working on it because it's deep in there. And it comes out of times. You don't expect, Speaker 4 00:56:06 There are some, like, there was like, I forgot where I saw it, but maybe on a dating site or something that I posted or whatever. But a guy was saying, um, well, whatever, like you get bombarded by, by messages on dating apps. Speaker 0 00:56:24 So, you know, like you should be happy with that, but they don't fucking know what we get bombarded with Dick pics, like all kinds of bullshit, fucking messages like, Oh, you know, but so what I'm saying is these guys are like, Oh, you're, you know, you shouldn't be complaining that you're single or whatever it is. You know what I mean? Speaker 3 00:56:46 Getting all these decks in your inbox Speaker 0 00:56:49 Complaints that we have is single women. But you know, like they're complaining that they're the good guys and that they don't give any action Speaker 3 00:56:59 For these. I'm Speaker 0 00:57:01 I'm assuming these are some of the, what do they call them? Speaker 3 00:57:04 So let's take that who were talking about Speaker 2 00:57:08 Yeah, exactly what we're talking about. That same attitude. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:57:15 Where it's like, you're getting harassed. You shouldn't be upset or Speaker 0 00:57:18 At least you're getting attention. No motherfucker. That's not the attention that we want. Speaker 2 00:57:25 You know, as much as men don't like to admit this, they're also offended by unwanted sexual advances. Of course, or the person Speaker 0 00:57:35 They don't want that. They don't want that attention Speaker 2 00:57:38 As much as they don't want to admit it. They they're all it's like, okay, so you don't like that. Well, what about like, Speaker 3 00:57:46 Right. Well, and there's that double standard where it's like, Oh, boys will be boys versus that bitch is crazy. And it's like, yeah. I think another thing I wanted to bring up to you about like a red flag about Emma dating, serial killer or something like that is if they just don't add up. Right? Yeah. Speaker 0 00:58:07 Like meaning like their, their actions are not adding up to their word. Speaker 3 00:58:11 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's the things that they tell you about their life. Just like don't, aren't actually reflected in what they do if they just don't add up or like yeah. If they like, yeah. There's, it gets murky too, because it's like, you know, there's that thing where it's like, you need to be able to count on someone, but then you don't want to be like, Oh, where were you? But if I don't know, it's really, it's a really, really great area. And if someone knows how to manipulate the language of like, you're being overbearing versus like you're grilling me because I'm being dishonest is it gets confusing. Speaker 2 00:58:52 The bullshit that they do that to you. I don't like that. You know, I'm not trying to be overbearing. I'm not trying to whatever. And just trying to explain, you're explained to me, hold on, you told me you were doing this well, Speaker 3 00:59:11 It's not that uncommon. I mean, I recently heard about a situation where a friend had a roommate who would dress up in scrubs and leave every night and say he was like going to work a surgeon and then Speaker 2 00:59:22 Show up at his girlfriend's house in his scrubs and say, he just got off his shift working as a surgeon and then come back in the morning and his scrubs and say, that was a long night. What the fuck? You know, I'm, this shit happens. That's a psychopath right there. Right? Where was he getting that much money? Because I mean, I know surgeons and doctors are in debt for life. So like fishing bitch, cat fishing, he would catch fish people for money. Love scams. Oh my shit that I hear about in passing during COVID living up on the fucking mountain side talking to no one like this shouldn't happen. So why do we, where did the women find good guys at the gym? You've got to go to the gym. You've got to go hiking. You have to go do shit. That is wholesome. Uh, back in the day, I'd tell you, maybe go find one in church, but don't do that. Speaker 2 01:00:29 No, no, not for a man. I think just go in and do it. The stuff that you enjoy doing, and this is, I mean, it's such a different time right now, middle school. So like, I don't know. Well, no, we didn't start dating until we were in our twenties. But like I met him a long, long, long, long time ago. So like, I don't know. Yeah, you've got it. You've got to put yourself, like Becca says in, in, in the place where you're going to be anyway, the library at his last girlfriend at the library that rebirth it. But also, I mean, if you think about it, they meet you. They're like, okay, well I like doing this and I want to kill this specific type of person. I'm going to go and do this thing that I like, do you guys serial killers? Right. Just for organized psychopaths. They do this thing as much as it sounds weird. A lot of like the ones that like you ended up dating, they do a lot of the normal things that you and I do to them. Right. I think the answer Speaker 0 01:01:47 Trust, like trusting our fucking guts. I really, really do because I've had some alarms where I'm like, Nope, Nope. And I've listened to them. I don't know if the person was psychopath, whatever, but I know that I know my gut was telling me to not fucking do it and I didn't do it Speaker 2 01:02:12 Every, I listen to my God. I forgot it. Yeah. Me too. Speaker 0 01:02:18 Yeah. Yeah. You've heard a great explanation. Speaker 3 01:02:22 I'm being prejudice. God, you know, whatever, you know, no, you're not just, it's, it's, it's a gut feeling that you need to start taking seriously. Doesn't matter what it is. And I think we're all guilty of that. Speaker 4 01:02:36 Yeah. No, definitely. Like they don't vibe with your vibe. Like if you give, skip that, that feeling, right? Like it might, it might be one of those situations where like it's a good bed situation, but nothing else, like Speaker 3 01:02:58 They rush it really fast, like rush into feeling super freaking fast and love bomb you and you know, all the classics. Speaker 0 01:03:08 Right. Speaker 3 01:03:09 Right. I don't love you. They just love you being in love with them. Yeah. Have you tried era? Speaker 0 01:03:18 I've been on Bumble. I've been on Tinder. Um, what was the other one? Hinge. Okay. Speaker 4 01:03:25 I've seen that one. The one where it's just supposed to delete it. Speaker 0 01:03:29 Right, right, right. Like it's, it's, it's designed for you to delete it. Like they find so with hinge, it seems. Cause I didn't pay for any of them. I did pay for Bumble once. Um, but Speaker 3 01:03:43 I've heard good things about Bumble. Speaker 0 01:03:45 I don't like any of them. I think they all fucking suck, honestly. Like I'm not a fan of dating apps because you get bombarded with all these people that you match with. Some of them you never talked to. Some of them would talk to for like, I don't know, a couple of minutes, maybe a day, maybe a couple of days, everybody falls off. I have only met maybe three people ever from, from any of the apps. Speaker 3 01:04:12 Wow. So you tell them that you have a dating podcast, Speaker 0 01:04:16 So I'm not, I'm not at any of the apps right now. I should say that actively. Um, I think I say like I have a dating podcast and then they come up and they're like, so am I, am I like research for dating podcasts? And I'm like, dude, you're not that it's not that interesting. Like this, our conversation, he and I, whatever is not that interesting. No, you're not going to be research on my podcast. You know? Cause it's like, I won't talk about this shit. I want to talk about like the psychology of dating. I want to talk about not just like having interaction with people on dating, it's fucking boring. They don't stick. It. Doesn't stick. It's a very, um, disposable culture in sync, gratification, culture. Everybody wants like whatever they want, if they don't have it, they're going to go to the next person to the next person. It's like swiping. It's so gross to me. Yeah. Speaker 3 01:05:16 Relationships fucking Speaker 2 01:05:18 Work. Like, you know, not necessarily bad work, but like they do take work. It takes like being okay with being uncomfortable for a couple of days until the conflict resolves itself and not like, you know, it's a commitment to decide, to commit to, to working through working on being in this relationship and growing together. Speaker 4 01:05:48 Yes. And sometimes it takes fighting over the way, someone shredded a block of cheese Speaker 2 01:05:54 Work through the fact that you were upset Speaker 4 01:05:56 About something that happened two weeks Speaker 2 01:05:58 Ago. Yeah. And you have to be okay with that. You have some, like Speaker 4 01:06:05 You have to find like when you find that person would, you know, and you're not just going from person to person, to person, you find that person, you have to be okay with sometimes knowing how they process situations and when to like strike. Speaker 2 01:06:21 I'm not saying that like in a malicious way, you just have to like know. And sometimes, sometimes Speaker 4 01:06:28 I am, uh, I've been married for almost always be seven years. This year we've been together for nine years. I know when to bite my tongue, but sometimes I don't. And then that's when the black and cheese situation happened. Speaker 2 01:06:46 But a lot of work comes from Speaker 4 01:06:49 No damn block and cheese. Usually it's like the best dinner, but Speaker 2 01:06:55 It was Speaker 4 01:06:59 Cause then you figure it out and then you have awesome makeup time. Speaker 2 01:07:09 So here he comes. Oh wow. Me Albert, Albert, Albert. He's like, I was looking for a girlfriend. Oh my God. He's so cute. I love it. I love yours. And now my boyfriend now we found you a girlfriend. We decided, and now we're common law married because <inaudible> in Colorado. It's like our shit in myriad in Colorado. Now I gotta get out of here Speaker 4 01:08:02 Shins about like tender. Cause I kind of missed that wave. Um, say me and my husband, we started dating when I was 24, 23, 20 pandemic. So I don't know how it's like when it started in, like, we were like, I had just gotten out of a really serious relationship and whatever. And like, I didn't know anything about that. Like I was still about like, why don't you just like go out and like meet people? Like why not? And like, so I miss that. So like what? So I always heard a couple of like, Oh wait, my tender date. Is it like, you're not actually meeting as many people as people said that they were or was it just like a really awesome tool for people who have sex addiction? Speaker 3 01:08:48 I think, Speaker 0 01:08:49 Oh, I think it could be both. I think it could be all. Cause I've met people who actually have gotten married from Tinder. Um, I've met people who like would ha be like serial. Daters like, I'm going out with so-and-so like fucking seven days a week getting dinners. Speaker 4 01:09:07 So that was a real thing. Speaker 3 01:09:10 And then Speaker 0 01:09:11 There are people that I'm imagining. I don't, I don't know it hasn't been confirmed, but I'm pretty sure that go on there for sex. Speaker 4 01:09:23 Maybe it's just, I don't know. Maybe some people I know or knew at that time that was at that time. So now I don't either longer have to question at that time. That just seemed like that's all it was for was to just wait and bam done. Get your thing or for people to make money Speaker 0 01:09:45 Right now. I think every dating app could be used for that. Honestly. Like I think Tinder has like the stigma of that for sure. At first. Speaker 4 01:09:57 Do you remember plenty of fish? Yeah. That was really big when I was like 1920, like when I was just becoming an adult when 18 actually meant to becoming an adult back then Speaker 3 01:10:11 Someone that got married off of that one. Yoga's good. Speaker 4 01:10:14 Yeah. But they're yeah, they're still married too. Um, but like that's plenty of fish back then. That was a huge thing. And Oh, what was the other one? There was like, yeah, there's that one. And then like match.com. Like have you ever been unmatched.com or any of the lows? How would you compare those ones to the foam ones? Speaker 0 01:10:39 I've been on match.com. I've been an OKC. I think I did eat harmony for a minute. I did not like the people they matched me with. I was not attracted to them. Speaker 3 01:10:49 I'm okay. Keep it up. They show you your nemesis too. No, not that I know of. Oh yeah. I remember, um, my roommate was on OkCupid and she's like, it's my nemesis. He's a 0% match. And of course you'd like to message her and like was like, we shouldn't be fuck. And she's like, of course, like fucking nemesis wants to fuck me. Like we're not, why not? Speaker 2 01:11:15 Wouldn't that be like a challenge? I mean, it would be battle. It would be in battle. Fuck in those crime GS or what is it like data bowl juicy, like DeVos's dating challenge. It would be inviting. You can't fuck your match, but you can fuck your nemesis. Speaker 0 01:11:44 That's why they do it. They say 90 days. No fucking, but you can fuck your nemesis. Speaker 2 01:11:53 No fucking no problem. The only person you can fuck is your nemesis, but you have to date your match and then yeah. Speaker 0 01:12:01 You're fucking your nemesis. Yeah. Good. Speaker 2 01:12:05 It's a good balance company. Come up with their own fucking Speaker 0 01:12:14 Dating app because this is some bullshit. Speaker 2 01:12:16 All good. Did the GC rebels challenge? Yeah. See rebels challenge or something like that. We could like mash up the names. No, I have a name. Speaker 0 01:12:31 I'm not saying that in here though. Okay. Speaker 2 01:12:34 Still my shit. Not you guys, but people watching. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0 01:12:46 Because like it's just not working these days for the people that I actually, I actually do talk to people on the dating apps and just ask them questions. Like how, how are you having success? You know? Like, they're just like this fucking sucks. Speaker 2 01:13:01 I meet people. Speaker 0 01:13:02 I match with people. But if we don't really talk or if we talk, it's not that we don't talk that much. And so it's not working for like, I would say 90% of the people and now we're in a pandemic. Right. So like, Speaker 2 01:13:17 Do I get sick or do I just stay home? Or like Speaker 0 01:13:24 Meeting somebody? Like I met somebody in Barcelona and uh, and, and we've been talking not so much lately, but like for like almost a year now. Wow. Wow. And so like, there are people like me, you know, that have met people from different countries that they haven't, obviously they can't meet Speaker 2 01:13:46 And they wouldn't let Americans go anywhere. They could come here and fuck us, but we can't bullshit. We can't go there and enjoy their job because we're in a red zone. Nobody wants to think that they can come here. Some places can't come here though. Yeah. Well, they're not, they don't want them coming here. They don't want anybody coming here. They don't, I, I dunno, Speaker 3 01:14:15 I'm serious. I don't know how to get the goddamn vaccine shit. We gotta get these girls out of the country so that they can go do their thing. That's important. It's important. It is. And hopefully they're not serial killers. Right. And what if that happens, if we show up in Barcelona and fucking wherever else and they're serial killers, like meet in the middle, like what's the halfway point between Norway and Barcelona. Like somewhere. That means we're going to be staying in Asheville for quite a lot. I'll just decompress on the mountain. We've got a guestroom. I'll make you post a divorcement cake or I'd say like dating a serial killer cake at the divorce. Big cake are probably the same cake. I think. So the recipe should work Speaker 4 01:15:09 Getting rid of a narcissist abuser. Speaker 3 01:15:13 You know, also, you know, abusers, Speaker 4 01:15:15 Serial killers share a lot of the same traits. They, well, you know, I don't necessarily know that they'll get as like aggressive as like abusers and keep you away from your family. You're away from your friends and stuff. If anything, they'd probably encourage you to, you know, fill your time Speaker 3 01:15:36 Because they need a lot of time. Speaker 4 01:15:38 But still at the same time, if they're not getting your attention like an abuser, they're going to make it known. And you were going to get some form of like weird punishment, Speaker 3 01:15:50 Right? They'll play they'll test. You they'll play games with you. And big thing to you is if you catch him in a line, there's no way out like, cause they will excuse, excuse, excuse, but they will never apologize. Not really. And if you back them into that corner, if they back themselves into that corner, there's a blast radius, the lash out violently. And even if they didn't go into it with the intention of hurting you or worse, like it could happen, Speaker 4 01:16:15 It'll be your fault that that girl died. Right? Speaker 3 01:16:19 Cause like protecting their alternate reality is more important than anyone. Speaker 4 01:16:27 Yep. So because you confronted them and made them feel uncomfortable with something that you noticed, they had to go out and kill so-and-so or commit such and such crime and make sure that they could come back and you not know about it and it'd be okay then, then that, then that line has not been crossed. They're not doing anything wrong. It's still your fault. It's not their fault. Speaker 3 01:16:57 I had acne. It's not my fault. I got <inaudible> do the same thing. Speaker 4 01:17:03 There's do the same thing, the same exact thing. So it's, it Speaker 2 01:17:10 Doesn't matter if they killed people or if not, it's just, there's the fuck up your list. They psychopath an unhealthy psycho. I would consider add healthy psychopath. Somebody that crosses that line and has decided that murdering is the only thing that is going to make them feel whole as a person. And then there's just that psychopath. That is what, you know, like the, the normal, you know, normal type of breakfast, psychopaths. Have you dated anybody on the apps that made you feel nervous that made you feel like maybe they could be one of those that we'll talk about tonight? Speaker 0 01:17:56 I dated this one guy. I forget his name doesn't matter. Um, he was just off. I remember meeting him in the daytime and we went like on a, a date in the daytime with his dog. And he was just like really disconnected from, I don't know what, but I could just feel that there was a disconnection with him and connecting with me. Um, I don't know what it was, but it was just like, it was off. And I, and I listened to it and I actually, we had a couple of dates after more dates after that. And then I ended up just blocking him and then he found me, he texted me on like from a different number or something like a long time ago. I was in Seattle and like, you know, he texted me something and I was just, it was just an icky feeling and I paid attention to it. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised. Speaker 2 01:19:07 And if he did it, Speaker 0 01:19:07 So probably do it again. Like one of those guys, the <inaudible>, Speaker 2 01:19:14 He Speaker 0 01:19:14 Was not someone that had like, seemed like he had a conscience or like a empathy, but he very much was like, that was obvious. I was. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 01:19:28 That's fascinating. Speaker 0 01:19:31 I'm like, I feel like for the most part, I have a good sense about people and like feeling their energy. And I have been fucking, very lucky being, I mean, I'm S I've been single for I'm 44. I've been single for most of my life. I have dated several men. Most of them have been people I've known from like my neighborhood from, you know, from me knowing them from years and years. So I haven't really met very many people on dating apps, but I feel like I do have a good sense of like there a person's energy for the most part. And I do listen to it Speaker 4 01:20:23 Thing. Cause do you remember back in, uh, December, 2018 here in Minnesota, in St. Cloud, the woman that was murdered by a man that she actually met at a wedding, her husband and her were swingers and she met this man at a wedding and she went on another date with him. And the second day he ended up taking her to his home and killing her. And when the police arrested him, they told him, he told them that he had planned on killing her the first night that he met her in the first day that they went on. But the voices in his head told him no to wait. Um, and yeah, this happened, this happened in Minnesota, Farrah St. Cloud. Speaker 0 01:21:12 I haven't, I had didn't hear about that. Speaker 4 01:21:13 That's been recently, he was found incompetent to, uh, face trial, hard to get that's hard to get. Speaker 0 01:21:23 Yeah. What does that mean? Speaker 4 01:21:26 He's if he plays in sanity, he's going to wake up. He's incompetent. So if any, if he does get convicted with anything, he'll go to a psych ward. If that, I mean, well for a big chunk of his life Speaker 0 01:21:45 Or had these fucking guys like, like, it all comes back for me to this post that I, that I put up today of this woman who I quoted and like this man that she had not met yet. And she said that we had maybe 50 words asked you, go over to his house, bring alcohol and have a good time. How are you fucking kidding me? We're not 16 anymore. Well, I mean, and we're just like, this is not safe. It's men, you need to know it's not safe for women. We don't feel safe coming to your house. We don't know you. We're not going to go to your fucking house. I'm not putting to in the house. I don't know. Speaker 2 01:22:30 And what's that quote, like Manor, scared that women are going to make the air, make fun of them. And women are afraid. Men are going to kill them or something like that. It's like, it's a real thing. It's real. Speaker 4 01:22:43 They will say also vice versa because there are serial killer women as well. Speaker 0 01:22:50 But like it's, isn't it rare? Isn't it like what's no, that it's a, it's rare. They don't get caught as much. Yeah. They don't get caught, Speaker 2 01:23:02 But it's usually not usually, I don't know in the, I went to this really awesome panel on female serial killers a couple of years ago, it was cottage, feminist scifi convention. But they were talking about how a lot of, um, female serial killers get away with it for a while. Cause they kill people that like were expected to die anyway. And they're more discrete, you know, who is the one that, uh, uh, the monster? Speaker 4 01:23:37 Yeah, yep, yep. Eileen or no, she was, she was, I don't know. I don't know either. She was an extreme feminist and decided to kill all men. She got raped. She got some of the things she said actually happened because some of, some of the situations and the way that the men were found murdered did not depict the story that she would tell as to why she killed them. Not saying it didn't happen because it very well could have some of those situations more than likely did happen in somewhat. Like in some of them I do leave, especially like the first person she killed. I do believe that that her holiness, Speaker 1 01:24:22 Because the people that you're dealing with. And that's another thing, like I had some really big questions about that. I'm like, okay, if you're there for a year, how many men are you going to come across in a year that are going to hit you or not pay you or whatever their situation. Yeah. So this had been going on for years. So actually she didn't kill that many when you look at it. I mean, let's be honest. I mean, you know, I mean, I'm sure she got hit more than, you know, five or six, six years. I'm sure. So honestly, I don't know. It's a really, hers is a really interesting situation. I think it could be argued on both sides of the matter serial killer or was she just defending herself in the jungle? Speaker 4 01:25:10 Yep. And that it was a mixture of both. It definitely because there was some monetary gain to just killing a John. It's always a monetary dank and also gaining a vehicle and being able to continue to move. So there's Speaker 1 01:25:25 She did do that. I think when she did start doing it, it got, she had some complicating factors, Speaker 4 01:25:35 Just like, just like we said in our, you know, other one about in our other episode, um, my brain, when we do it, sometimes you, you get a taste for it. Sometimes the first time is self-defense or an accident. It's an Speaker 1 01:25:47 Accident. Speaker 4 01:25:51 Feelings are love, is addicting. Feelings are addicting. So then that feeling, that rush that you get from that even, even serial dating, you get a rush from knowing that that many people are craving your attention. You know, you can spread whatever to that many people that's a gifting to you. So let's, it's hard to say with Ms Cornell's and her child, Speaker 3 01:26:17 A level of control with both of those where it's like, I can control your attention. I can control like, Speaker 4 01:26:24 You know, yeah. Speaker 3 01:26:27 Shit enough on like successful manipulation and yeah. Speaker 4 01:26:31 Yeah. Well, all of it, you also maintained a relationship while doing this. Now the fact that her, her lover decided to say, Oh, I didn't know what she was doing. I think is complete and total bullshit. She just wanted immunity. But the fact that she also maintained a relationship and she said that a lot of the things that she did was to make sure that her partner would stay with her to make sure that she can give her, you know, the house she wanted, the life she wanted and all of those things, and it just continuously failed. So she continuously had to continue to kill Johns and take their money and get this and that. Speaker 3 01:27:10 And then again, she was blaming it on her partner where she's like, I didn't do it for me. I did it because of her. I wanted her to stay with me. Right. And that's, that's shifting the blame where it's like, it's not my fault that I killed them. I had to take care of my girlfriend. Speaker 4 01:27:24 No. And I mean, it wasn't a huge factor. Hers was more so, you know, I had been beaten and raped my entire life. How do you not expect somebody to retaliate? How do you expect somebody to not to continue that, that way? When they have a way to defend themselves, that was her major. Speaker 3 01:27:42 I wish we hadn't killed her though. I wanted to keep her alive. We needed to talk to her more. Speaker 4 01:27:47 He had the death sentence, right? Yeah. Yep. She is. She has since been put to death. Um, there was quite a, a lot of people made a lot of money off of her, unfortunately, and some really shady ways. Um, there's a couple there's um, what is that making money off of a serial killer? I believe it's a couple, there's a couple of documentaries about it. And the lawyer that she ended up with, he was a P O S that guy was a sociopath don't date. The person who defended, I leave more notice because he'll steal all of your money and then sell your story for money. Speaker 3 01:28:26 And that's another reason. Some people like date serial killers in prisons, like write a book about it or to like sell a movie, deal about it. And, you know, cause there's this thing, this like misconception where it's like, you know, the person dating the killer on the inside is the one getting manipulated. But really the person on the outside is the one with the power. Like this. Person's like in a completely controlled environment, you know where they are and you know what they're doing. And then you're like on the outside with like a story to tell and give me fucking kill anyone. Speaker 4 01:28:57 Nope. Nope. I never thought of the people dating Speaker 0 01:29:02 Serial killers would like, as that as being like manipulative or like narcissistic. But yeah, that makes sense. Speaker 4 01:29:12 No, there are, I know of one in particular manual cortex is a serial killer in Oregon and he's married, but he's got other women he's writing and stuff. We've gotten calls from investigators just six months ago. They're still looking at some killings he's done. Um, and I'm, I suspect this girl that's writing him is doing that so she can do a book specifically. Well, that's been going on for a couple of years. I'm keeping my eye on that bitch. Her name's Rita. Speaker 0 01:29:52 Oh, Frieda. Speaker 4 01:29:59 We're not watching when your book comes out, we're going to see it. Speaker 0 01:30:04 We know about you Ruda. All right, ladies. Well, I feel like, I feel like we've had a really good episode. I think this is fun. Yeah. It's so much it's been so thank you. Because like, honestly I wasn't in the best of most before this. Well, we're always here to chill your cheer, you up with serial killers and giggling about them. Speaker 4 01:30:32 The only way to talk about them in all honesty, I really learned to be super serious because the thing was that deep blue and can do and are capable of, even if they're not serial killers, it can affect an entire family, your life, family job. Um, even your ability to take a shower. Yeah. Your mental health, everything. So it is important to be able to see those red flags before it gets to the point where you're like, what do I do? And I have been in those situations. Yes. I have been married, you know, for quite a little bit of time. But before then I had to learn. And I was in some pretty interesting situations that I still am having that I still have trauma from, but I know those signs now, and I know what I will and will not put up with. So sometimes you do have to deal with it, but if you can listen to other people and hear those signs, like, Oh, okay, like checklists might sound stupid. But if you have a checklist in your mind of what you won't allow to happen to you in each one of those checks marks are checked off by that person that you're with, if you're able to leave. Yeah. Speaker 0 01:31:50 And it's one of the things that we haven't covered so far that, you know, closing remarks is it's amazing how normal a completely psychotic Speaker 2 01:32:00 Life can become like toxic relationships can become. It's amazing how quickly a very toxic and crazy situation can become normal. Yeah. Speaker 0 01:32:12 When you're in it, you can't really see out of it. It's like, I know I've been in, I've been in a few and yeah. It becomes normal. Speaker 2 01:32:21 Yeah. And that's why the checklists are important. That's why listening to your friends are important. That's why checking in with your guts important. And um, the checklists are great. Cause they're external, they're objective. And it's something that you can apply, even if you're in it. And even if like, you know, it's like, you can know it, but not believe it. And then eventually those will align and you'll get out. Speaker 4 01:32:43 Even if you don't check the box, just reading it over and over again, essentially. Because in some situations you can, you can sit there and people will tell you, no, this isn't good. This, you know, I see this, I see that. You're not going to listen to it. It's just like a drug addict. You're going to do it when all of a sudden click damn, they were insane. Yeah. Speaker 0 01:33:12 You don't pay attention. You're doing a huge disservice to yourself in a big fucking way. Speaker 4 01:33:19 Yeah. That's a great point. It's hard to see it. And it's hard to accept it sometimes. And you're like, damn, they were telling me this this entire time. Yeah. It's hard. Speaker 2 01:33:29 And don't feel bad about it because like, this is how they survive. Like manipulators are very good at it because it's how they get what they need. So like, if you've fallen for it, don't feel bad about yourself. It just means you're a caring person that like has a vulnerability. Speaker 4 01:33:47 Okay. You've been used by somebody that you cared about. You did a lot for Speaker 2 01:33:53 Just make you <inaudible> Speaker 0 01:33:56 And think about like how far that will go with someone who actually liked deserves that. And that's going to rocket bringing it back to you, you know, like Speaker 4 01:34:04 Exactly. And it's amazing when it happens and you're like, damn, I didn't know. That was a thing. Yeah. Like, and then, and then you run away from it because that's not what you're used to, to begin with. And then you're like, damn, Oh, don't have me do that guys. Speaker 2 01:34:26 Are you doing an episode on attachment styles? Speaker 0 01:34:29 Well, it's coming out. I've already done it. Exciting. Speaker 4 01:34:34 I only Speaker 0 01:34:35 Feel like I just like scratch the surface of it. Cause there's so much. Speaker 2 01:34:40 Oh yeah. I've seen some of your posts about the attachments to house one and I'm like, I feel personally Speaker 4 01:34:48 True. Nobody wants to be their attachment styles. No, no, no. I know I have weird attack. I'm I'm weird. I moved a lot and to different States when I was younger. So my attachments to people were weird because they were never very long. And it took me the longest time for myself and relate like romantic relationships and friendships and even family memberships to hold myself accountable for what I was doing or what I was saying. So I guess, I mean, I was a little bit of a psychopath when I was there. I don't know baby, but I could do and say whatever I want, because I knew in six months I'd be gone. Right. And it didn't matter. I could be somebody completely and totally different when I got to that. So you probably are in avoidant attachment a little bit. I've owned up to it and I'm like, you know what, I'm doing this only because I know that I'm used to just leaving and not resolving situations. And so for me, as I've gotten older, that is something that I have identified in myself and I've worked on, but it's, it's hard. It's hard. And I don't blame people for having weird attachment styles because our generation was weight raised. Very oddly, you know? Great. Well ladies, thank you so much. That was so fun. It's so much fun. Speaker 5 01:36:17 <inaudible>.